Andy Paquette, Mask Science, Big Lie? |523|

#2
"..so, to Me, the hallmark of Skeptiko is You're absolutely not afraid to deal directly with the people who disagree with you. And you, as far as I can tell, have honestly tried find out if the other side might be right.." ...."To Me, that's how this kind of inquiry should be conducted."
-Andy Paquette
 
#3
It gets to the point where you just can't trust sources that in the past you never would have questioned, such as government health authorities.

 
#4
It gets to the point where you just can't trust sources that in the past you never would have questioned, such as government health authorities.

My opinion, whatever is going on, they're lying about it. All by itself, that is a reason to mistrust the message. My feeling is you don't lie, censor, and suppress on such a grand scale unless they are certain no one would willingly submit otherwise. And that means to me that the situation is far more dangerous than advertised, even by people who think it is dangerous.

I wonder sometimes how the good people of Germany, not to be confused with the bad people of Germany, were persuaded to go along with the atrocities leading up to WWII. In many ways, the portrait of government and corporate messaging from that era resembles our own fairly closely.

I think Alex was very perceptive to spot that one person in a thousand foundation this study relied on. To me, it is just as scandalous that the authors did not acknowledge any contrary arguments. What that should tell us is that the purpose of the article is to conceal and thereby advance an unpopular and potentially dangerous agenda.
 
#5
My opinion, whatever is going on, they're lying about it. All by itself, that is a reason to mistrust the message. My feeling is you don't lie, censor, and suppress on such a grand scale unless they are certain no one would willingly submit otherwise. And that means to me that the situation is far more dangerous than advertised, even by people who think it is dangerous.

I wonder sometimes how the good people of Germany, not to be confused with the bad people of Germany, were persuaded to go along with the atrocities leading up to WWII. In many ways, the portrait of government and corporate messaging from that era resembles our own fairly closely.

I think Alex was very perceptive to spot that one person in a thousand foundation this study relied on. To me, it is just as scandalous that the authors did not acknowledge any contrary arguments. What that should tell us is that the purpose of the article is to conceal and thereby advance an unpopular and potentially dangerous agenda.
Here in Canada, they don't even try to cover their lies. The video I linked to showed a government announcement that was clearly giving out false information. If you watch mainstream news here, it's expected that anyone who speaks against the narrative will be attacked and called a crackpot. There is no allowance for discussion in this country. I've noticed more and more people don't follow the regulations, but they pretend to. It turns out the government doesn't care if people actually follow the regulations, just so long as they pretend to.
 
#7
1. Sounds like an obvious null result assuming the study was accurately portrayed here (which I take for granted)

2. Yes and no - don't discount that the battle lines of this debate had already been drawn and the media were guaranteed to assist so the risk/reward equation of the lie takes on other dimensions (ie. publicly debating a big lie automatically earns the label of "conspiracy theorist" and a big lie that proves your now cherished mask religion correct goes down pretty smooth).

3. I wish I knew. No one can even agree on motive so I'll go with good old fashioned money/power, the recipients of which are numerous but must include Gates, health authorities, and any drug manufacturers providing us relief from those pesky masks.

4. Sure but it's evil of the most mundane and familiar sort (no child sacrifice caliber stuff) that we've come to expect from sociopaths. The scale may be massive but they have not been witness to the suffering and could not have derived any pleasure from it which I find to be more relevant (than scale) in this regard.
 
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#8
Hard mechanical science is still fairly honest. The bridge either stands or collapses. The space rocket either successfully launches, reaches its intended destination and completes the mission, or it fails. It is difficult to hide the results and we can all observes them.

Social sciences, anthropology, public health and things that grow in Petri dishes or bubble in test tubes in labs are an entirely different set of circumstances. There are too many variables involved and/or publicly unobservable results (e.g. what happened in the Petri dish in the lab). There is much opportunity for fraud, foolishness and story telling.

Government will often = fraud because there is no accountability and no bottom line and there are power hungry people looking to control the message to remain favorable to whatever they are up to. The best and brightest do not go into government work. Rather, mostly small minded insecure people. Such people are vulnerable to corruption. Universities are now following the government model for the same reasons. A real talent does not want to hang out on a college campus being directed by a political board the rest of his/her life.

Alternatively, internal audience only studies done to enhance profits are usually good because profits are on the line. The analysis is either correct and resulting in enhance profit, or it wrong resulting in career limiting financial loss.

Humans are selfish, weak willed, sinners and they will commit as much sin as they possibly can in all areas of life, if they think they can get away with it and, especially, if there is something to be gained, like fame/status and fortune. Two thing that should never be under-estimated. 1. The drive that many people have to be accepted and liked by "important" people 2. The power of pussy (or the power of sublimated unfulfilled pussy craving) as a driver of behavior by men. Sad, but that's where we are and always have been. It is a rare person who consistently acts with integrity and honor and is dedicated to truth (btw - I think Andrew is such a person).

The study in question is clearly an information operation and/or a promotion for funding (both IMO) - the authors are clearly demonstrating that they are willing and capable of producing IO BS, hence, they should be funded by organizations looking for that, which, in turn, strongly suggests that the CDC, WHO, NGOs and US/UK governments are known by insiders to be looking for pro-covidian IO BS.

This kind of IO has been used by the CIA and other agencies, in foreign countries, to influence society in directions deemed favorable to the US and UK. Now it has all come home to roost - and roost in an all pervasive and very concentrated manner the likes of which I have not seen prior to 2016 and that I believe are unprecedented. Social media/mass media plays a big role in this phenomenon, but there are other factors.

Those familiar with me here know that I eschew conspiracy theories (9/11, Kennedy, for example). However, covid is a full blown conspiracy as far as I am concerned.
 
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#10
Here in Canada, they don't even try to cover their lies. The video I linked to showed a government announcement that was clearly giving out false information. If you watch mainstream news here, it's expected that anyone who speaks against the narrative will be attacked and called a crackpot. There is no allowance for discussion in this country. I've noticed more and more people don't follow the regulations, but they pretend to. It turns out the government doesn't care if people actually follow the regulations, just so long as they pretend to.
This is the situation where I live in the Philippines: when the plandemic was brand new, there was a lot of compliance & forceful attempts to restrict travel, pressure to wear masks, & get tested if you felt ill. With the delta variant dust-up, the old restrictions were thrown back up, but there was openly no enforcement. People still traipsed about w/ masks under their chin or w/ their nose exposed, but now crowded markets weren't controlled in regard to age restrictions & the general public moved about as they pleased. The only places checking for face shields & masks continued at supermarkets & such like. So ppl pretended to follow regulations, like having ppl posted at market entrances to watch who went in, but overall that's all that was required: PRETEND, just like we pretend to care about your health.
 

Alex

Administrator
#11
My opinion, whatever is going on, they're lying about it. All by itself, that is a reason to mistrust the message. My feeling is you don't lie, censor, and suppress on such a grand scale unless they are certain no one would willingly submit otherwise. And that means to me that the situation is far more dangerous than advertised, even by people who think it is dangerous.
great point. can you say more about "more dangerous"?
 

Alex

Administrator
#13
Butterfly in the room? Masks... Really? How about the elephant? Remdesivir is a killer. The covid jab is a killer. Fauci et al are psychopaths.

Alex, don't sneak up on the elephant, charge it!
I understand your point but I think the mask thing is significant. seems to me that one of the primary goals here is compliance... and all the nasty things that leads to.

masks are an in-your-face demonstration of compliance.
 
#14
Butterfly in the room? Masks... Really? How about the elephant? Remdesivir is a killer. The covid jab is a killer. Fauci et al are psychopaths.

Alex, don't sneak up on the elephant, charge it!
I think Alex is careful about a full tilt attack for at least one of the reasons you mentioned. Fauci et al are psychopaths & don't practice restraint typically when challenged. Dr. Tom Cowan has changed his attitude a bit now months later, but when he appeared in an early collection of anti-vaxxers making anti-vaccine statements, he was noticeably circumspect, as if he had been made to reconsider his position due to threats or actual consequences. As he's said before, we're only here to entertain each other. Don't get too serious.
 

Alex

Administrator
#15
1. Sounds like an obvious null result assuming the study was accurately portrayed here (which I take for granted)
https://www.poverty-action.org/site..._RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf
screenshot directly from:
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2. Yes and no - don't discount that the battle lines of this debate had already been drawn and the media were guaranteed to assist so the risk/reward equation of the lie takes on other dimensions (ie. publicly debating a big lie automatically earns the label of "conspiracy theorist" and a big lie that proves your now cherished mask religion correct goes down pretty smooth).
Is this study big lie propaganda

agreed. what do you think about the " big lie" thing. I think they overhype this story/study in order to bury it.


4. Sure but it's evil of the most mundane and familiar sort (no child sacrifice caliber stuff) that we've come to expect from sociopaths. The scale may be massive but they have not been witness to the suffering and could not have derived any pleasure from it which I find to be more relevant (than scale) in this regard.
Really interesting point. I totally agree with you it is different... but I definitely think some of these folks derive pleasure from the power trip... maybe the carnage along the way amps up the pleasure
 

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#16
I understand your point but I think the mask thing is significant. seems to me that one of the primary goals here is compliance... and all the nasty things that leads to.

masks are an in-your-face demonstration of compliance.
The masks are also a very measurable metric of level of societal compliance. Worse, non-masking is a reliable way to identify non-compliant citizens and put them on the list. You throw an intervention variable out there - mask wearing in this case - and then you observe how individuals react. You can log this info real time and very accurately by scooping social media (in fact, I'm pretty sure Facebook is directly working working the government n this. Other social media too, like twitter). Simple as that. Moreover, you can real time measure the public's reaction to various twists and turns you (big govt) introduce to the population
 
#18
The masks are also a very measurable metric of level of societal compliance. Worse, non-masking is a reliable way to identify non-compliant citizens and put them on the list. You throw an intervention variable out there - mask wearing in this case - and then you observe how individuals react. You can log this info real time and very accurately by scooping social media (in fact, I'm pretty sure Facebook is directly working working the government n this. Other social media too, like twitter). Simple as that. Moreover, you can real time measure the public's reaction to various twists and turns you (big govt) introduce to the population
I wonder how things are outside of my community in the Midwest.

I haven't worn a mask in months other than when I've gone to a doctor's appointment. Same goes for my wife and kids. I've even made the "mistake" of going into a place of business with mask requirements without one (not because I was purposefully being "non-compliant" but rather because I didn't think to bring one). Nothing happened, no one said anything. Notably, this is a very rare situation as most places of commerce, etc do not require masks where I live.

Further, I've not heard anything from anyone in my social circle regarding masks in months. This includes folks who are (and have been) very ANTI mask.

Is this different for folks in other parts of the U.S.?

Maybe more to the point, can anyone postulate how they see this problem of coerced compliance manifesting into something more sinister? I mean with some actual detail, re: what's next, what's the endgame, etc?
 
#19
The solution to this bullshit for the individual (besides happy talk and noncompliance) with no attorneys needed is
Stage 1: notice of liability and insurance claims against bonds, anyone can do it that has been harmed or restricted personally.
Stage 2: Private Attorney General federal lawsuits, anyone can do it even if you have not been personally effected.
Stage 3: Defensive 2nd amendment, if we fear death/poverty more than slavery, we are slaves.

Consider the Zen Parable of even the unarmed monk who dared challenge the strongman. "He took out his sword and said, 'Don’t you know that I’m the sort of person who could run you through without batting an eye?' The Zen master responded, 'And I, sir, am the sort of man who could be run through without batting an eye.'"
 
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#20
I wonder how things are outside of my community in the Midwest.

I haven't worn a mask in months other than when I've gone to a doctor's appointment. Same goes for my wife and kids. I've even made the "mistake" of going into a place of business with mask requirements without one (not because I was purposefully being "non-compliant" but rather because I didn't think to bring one). Nothing happened, no one said anything. Notably, this is a very rare situation as most places of commerce, etc do not require masks where I live.

Further, I've not heard anything from anyone in my social circle regarding masks in months. This includes folks who are (and have been) very ANTI mask.

Is this different for folks in other parts of the U.S.?

Maybe more to the point, can anyone postulate how they see this problem of coerced compliance manifesting into something more sinister? I mean with some actual detail, re: what's next, what's the endgame, etc?
I was living in NY until this past May. Mask mandates everywhere, businesses shut down because of restrictions. Now I live in AZ. The mask mandates lifted right as I arrived, though some businesses still demand it. I still see many idiots walking around out door or driving in their cars with masks on.

The mask mandate has now morphed into the vaccination mandate. There is a lot of psychology science around gaining compliance/brain washing. View the Milgram Experiment as well. Basically, get people to buy into wearing masks. See? That wasn't so bad! Now take this vaccine! Now roll over and bark like a dog! Beg for food! Turn in your neighbor! Give up your rights and property ("They will own nothing and be happy" - quote from a World Economic Forum speech)

You don't get people to give up their rights or do extreme things at the snap of a finger. They must be trained to follow the orders of authority figures. Easier to do if they are made afraid (Covid and global warming are going to kill us all!) Also, as I said, those who refuse to be malleable can be identified, vilified and eliminated in time; all with, minimally, the passive acceptance of the compliant.

End game? You're being too rational. People who seek a career controlling others are not always rational. Power and control are an end in themselves. Surely you have met at least a few like that.

That said, there are others who do have an end game. Our own federal agencies - those tasked with protecting us and forwarding our interests - have determined that the US is an empire in decline (a self-fulfilling prophecy!) and that the future is a global economy and government. The US will have to relinquish its power and wealth so the rest of the world becomes equal. There are, of course, many tangential objectives and short term tactics, and many stakeholders (e.g. Bill Gates), but that's it in a nutshell. No, this isn't something I dreamed up. It is actually stated loudly and clearly by strategists in the CIA, State Dept, etc. and all of those disgusting "think tanks". People just don't read that stuff and the "news" won't report it. So the "masterminds" apparently feel free to openly discuss. Anyhow, that idea appeals to the many commies and slacker midwits in our society. So even if it did become common knowledge, half of the country would think it's great.

It's all about destroying the freest most prosperous society the world has ever known in order to bring about a global quasi-utopia that also happens to be deemed more profitable, long term, to many companies, especially social media and online marketing/purchasing (Zuckerberg, Bezos, et al). You can't just destroy the US overnight. First you have to remove the will of a free people to fight back. There are a few profiteers involved and there are many ideologues.

These things are always driven by ideology. The profiteers then hijack the ideology. Socialism is a disease that is more popular than covid. The dream of oneness and world peace even inspires beauty pageant contestants. It's simpleton stuff, but half the US, based on IQ distribution, are simpletons. They eat this crap up. On the other side of the bell curve are the wolves that salivate over being in control of an important movement, over people. Also, over to the right side are the profiteers. Not many remaining who are interested in truth and freedom.
 
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