Coronavirus Pandemic

Here is some related research from Japan to support some of that.

An infectivity-enhancing site on the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is targeted by COVID-19 patient antibodies
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.423358v1



Basically it is this... the spike protein is what covid uses to enter the cell. First red flag!

again a red flag, the warning above this text:

bioRxiv is receiving many new papers on coronavirus SARS-CoV-2. A reminder: these are preliminary reports that have not been peer-reviewed. They should not be regarded as conclusive, guide clinical practice/health-related behavior, or be reported in news media as established information
(bolding mine)

another red flag:

Osaka Univ. and HuLA immune Inc. filed a patent related to this study. YL, YS, and HA are inventors of the patent. YS is an employee of HuLA immune Inc. HA and YS are stock holders of HuLA immune.

A(ntibody-)D(ependent) E(nhancement) is a real worry, and of course the scare mongering antivax community wil jump on that.
It
apparently has done the rounds on social media, so it is not a big surprise it raises it's head here.
But also vaccine researchers are aware of this, and test their candidates for this.

Correct me if i am wrong, but most of the studies quoted will establish the phenomena of ADE exists, but that is all.

Can you point to reliable evidence that ADE was caused by one of the current vaccines? Remember millions have been vaccinated already, and not a single case has been found so far.

This will produce what is called vaccine enhanced disease.

How can you say that with this kind of certainty?

Her are a few articles that put the real danger into perspective:

What is “Antibody-Dependent Enhancement”? What does it have to do with viral infections? Is there an actual danger of ADE from vaccines against COVID-19?

From the article:
ADE is a phenomenon seen in some viral diseases when reinfection can occasionally lead to a more severe form of the disease. There was a concern that this phenomenon would also occur with COVID-19, and so the subject was studied extensively by many specialists.

So far, the phenomenon was not seen in humans; not in the known cases of reinfection of the disease, not in plasma treatments given to recovering patients, not in the phase 3 trials of the vaccines performed on tens of thousands of people and not during the wide-scale vaccination drives worldwide. Follow up is still regularly performed, of course, among the infected, recovered, and vaccinated populations, and further tests are being conducted in animals in order to rule out unpleasant surprises.

It is important to remember that COVID-19 is a new disease. With more new variants of the disease spreading, we could further examine if any ADE cases occur when people are reinfected with different variants of the virus. So far, initial findings regarding the British variant, for example, have not reported ADE among those infected by it.

Although it cannot be unequivocally determined that the risk of ADE is nonexistent, as of today our findings show that it is unlikely, and the chances are slim. However, the danger of the disease itself and the damage it can cause, even for those who are not in a risk group, has been documented countless times.

or this one:

Antibody-Dependent Enhancement and the Coronavirus Vaccines

From the article:
So here’s the short version: no sign of ADE during the preclinical animal studies. No sign during the human clinical trials. No sign during the initial vaccine rollouts into the population. And (so far) no sign of ADE even with the variant strains in different parts of the world. We have things to worry about in this pandemic, but as far as I can tell today, antibody-dependent enhancement does not seem to be one of them. I understand why people would worry about it, and want to avoid it. But if you’re coming across reports that say that it’s a real problem right now and that you should avoid getting vaccinated because of it, well, I just don’t see it. Some of that is well-intentioned caution, and some of it is probably flat-out anti-vaccine scaremongering. Anyone with different data or different impressions, well, that’s why the comments are open around here!



I'm still looking into this, but this is what I can say for now.
Translation: "i am still trawling for antivax posts on facebook"

Speaking personally, given the evidence and especially lack of evidence there is no reason to play Russian roulette in this experiment against a virus that is only a worry for some. Especially when a much safer alternative, ivermectin, is showing growing support and evidence.

Ivermectin is a dud.
Whatever it helps, is not enough to make a dent in the infections.
and there are serious concerns about side effects:

Although ivermectin is generally well tolerated at doses authorised for other indications, side effects could increase with the much higher doses that would be needed to obtain concentrations of ivermectin in the lungs that are effective against the virus. Toxicity when ivermectin is used at higher than approved doses therefore cannot be excluded.

Fear is driving this whole thing in all aspects.
Yes! the irresponsible fear mongering of the antivax community is almost criminal.
It is preventing the eradication of measles, and it is going to have a real death toll in the case of Covid.
 
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Giving people vaccines for illnesses that are usually mild, is like playing Russian Roulette. Every time you 'play' it, you risk a disaster.
Covid is not a "mild illness" by any measure.
It killed one in every 485 people in my country, how is that "mild"?
 
Can you point to reliable evidence that ADE was caused by one of the current vaccines? Remember millions have been vaccinated already, and not a single case has been found so far.

The study is quite new and needs to be fully confirmed replicated etc...

The vaccines do code for the NTD domain so it is does not matter if it is from the vaccine or the virus.

As for not a single case being found how on Earth could one determine that?


How can you say that with this kind of certainty?

I didn't, I said if this study is solid then this would be the case.

Her are a few articles that put the real danger into perspective:

Yes I am aware, and yet this suggests the potential concern may be warranted. It is actual experimental evidence you are trying to discredit with nonspecific examples that make no mention of this recent discovery.

Translation: "i am still trawling for antivax posts on facebook"
Nice.

.
Whatever it helps, is not enough to make a dent in the infections.
and there are serious concerns about side effects:


You seem very certain, about many things..

NIH advised against Ivermectin, and then change to neither a for or against stance, and has allowed prescription. Anecdotally it has helped many people as well as in clinical trials. Many countries are willing to give it a go. It has been around for decades and been prescribed to around 4 billion since the 80's. It's safety record is well known. Unlike the so called vaccines which have harmed more people so far than Ivermectin has in decades.

The evidence regarding its efficacy has turned significantly.

Here is a real time summary of the studies that are continuing to mount. You are very quick to dismiss, and very quick to promote where the evidence is extremely scant and even non existent.

Real-time database and meta analysis Ivermectin COVID-19 studies
https://c19ivermectin.com/

Yes! the irresponsible fear mongering of the antivax community is almost criminal.
It is preventing the eradication of measles, and it is going to have a real death toll in the case of Covid.

There has been nothing but fear mongering from officials and the media, Many medical experts are speaking out and are being slandered and silenced and many are not antivax at all. Sorry but this line of objection is exactly the problem surrounding the very real concerns. This is criminal and dangerous.

This so called vaccination program is the largest experiment ever performed on the public. They are not approved or fully vetted. There is absolutely zero long term data. We will see how this turns out in years to come. By all means look forward to your jab, you really should apply the very same scrutiny with the pro side of the issue as you have done here. I do find it curious that you do not.

Each to their own. Good luck! Don't give in to fear, although that seems a little late.

It is still all early days, it is just straight up irresponsible to be so conclusive about the unknown.
 
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Here is a little more on the issue of ADE and the debate that I think gives much clarity to what is still entirely unclear.
All written before the Osaka study btw....

Scientists Warn of Potential COVID Vaccine-Related ‘Ticking Time Bomb’

Studies suggest that COVID vaccines may trigger antibody-dependent enhancement in some people, a condition that could cause them to develop more severe symptoms when exposed to the wild virus than if they hadn’t been vaccinated.

Associate Professor of Health Sciences Adam MacNeil at Brock University, Canada and his Ph.D. student Jeremia Coish were among the earliest to warn, last June, of the dangers of not looking very carefully at the possibility that vaccines might trigger antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) of disease. This could mean that people who are vaccinated might, paradoxically, suffer more severe disease when exposed to the wild virus than if they hadn’t been vaccinated.

Here is their article.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire? Due diligence warranted for ADE in COVID-19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7311339/

Seemingly countering this view, in August 2020, was viral epidemiologist Leah Katzelnick Ph.D., a dengue and zika specialist now in the employ of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases headed by Dr. Tony Fauci. Along with co-author Scott Halstead,. Katzelnick argued that ADE shouldn’t be something to be feared. Katzelnick and Halstead proposed that the fundamental differences between SARS-CoV-2 infection that can cause COVID-19 and other diseases, for which ADE has been shown, meant that ADE would be highly unlikely.

Careful readers of Halstead and Katzelnick’s paper will note that while the authors largely dismiss the ADE risk, they very clearly identify a risk of vaccine hypersensitivity (or VAH), a closely related immunological hyper-reaction that was first identified in the late 1960s when children developed atypical measles following measles vaccination.

Many who’ve used the paper to dismiss ADE risks may only have read the title and abstract and not picked up that Katzelnick and Halstead dismiss only intrinsic ADE or iADE (i.e. the risk of disease enhancement on re-infection in the absence of vaccination).

They also may not have read the sombre advisory in the paper’s last sentence: “Given the magnitude of the repertoire of COVID-19 problems and the need for an effective vaccine, the full force of worldwide investigative resources should be directed at unravelling the pathogenesis of VAH.”

There is not much to suggest that this advisory has been heeded, other than the fact that thousands of volunteers have been put through Phase 3 trials and there has been no evidence of spikes in more severe reactions among those vaccinated with the real thing, as opposed to the placebo.

Herbert Virgin, Ann Arvin and colleagues, writing in Nature, one of the most influential journals in the world, made a not dissimilar call for caution back in July. These authors discuss the great difficulties in identifying the incidence and frequency of ADE (and VAH) and suggest that “… it will be essential to depend on careful analysis of safety in humans as immune interventions for COVID-19 move forward.”

A perspective on potential antibody-dependent enhancement of SARS-CoV-2
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2538-8?ref=theprepping-com


Transparency is key
This requires full transparency of surveillance data so that cases of infection and reinfection post-vaccination can be correlated against severe reactions following infection or vaccination. It also requires time — much more time than we’ve had so far.

Presently, data released by VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) in the U.S. and the MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency) in the UK don’t come close to telling us anything about the ADE or VAH risk. In fact, there will have to be a lot more re-infection before we know conclusively one way or another. And will we be able to find out if there are genuine issues with ADE or VAH, or will the authorities manage to keep a lid on it by just not communicating them given many reactions will be substantially delayed following vaccination?

Timothy Cardozo from New York University and Ronald Veazy from Tulane University took it a step further in their article in the International Journal of Clinical Practice published in October, when Phase 3 trials for the COVID frontrunner vaccines were in full swing. They argued not only that vaccine-mediated ADE (i.e. VAH) risks were more than just theoretical, they also suggest that the risks may be greater following particular types of mutations in the circulating viruses.

Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID‐19 vaccines worsening clinical disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7645850/


In their discussion on SARS-CoV-2, they discuss how very tiny changes, such as changes in the conformity (shape) of its spike protein both before and after fusion with host cells, via ACE2 receptors might impact those who’ve been vaccinated. Several months on with emerging evidence that some variants are able to evade the immune response that has been trained to offer protection against the original Wuhan variants, there is cause for even greater concern. This risk also can’t be dismissed on the basis of the results of the Phase 3 trials

Is it possible that some instances of ‘long COVID’ could be a form of ADE? This is a possibility we have been considering. Typically people who get long COVID don’t test as positive from nasopharyngeal swab tests. But in deep seated systemic infections the mucosa may not show evidence of viral multiplication, whereas the infection may become systemic in certain tissues and be enhanced. This possibility cannot easily be dismissed.

Could the problem increase with new variants of SARS-CoV-2? Yes, as explained above.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/potential-covid-vaccine-related-ticking-time-bomb/
 
Norway: Risk of Dying From AstraZeneca Higher Than of COVID-19

Norwegians run a greater risk of dying from being inoculated with AstraZeneca's vaccine than from COVID-19, the National Institute of Public Health (FHI) concluded in its analysis, recommending the vaccine, previously linked to serious complications in the form of rare blood clotting and haemorrhage amid low platelet counts.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/2021...ing-from-astrazeneca-higher-than-of-covid-19/
 
This is not surprising, and is another complicated can of worms. I understand that simply googling up people to find opinions is far easier than addressing the very real concerns but I don't find it helpful sorry.
Of course its helpful if you find bias something worth considering when listening to "experts".

All we ever hear around here is the dangers of "bias" in big pharma, yet the biases of the contra-experts propped up here are consistently ignored.
 
Of course its helpful if you find bias something worth considering when listening to "experts".

All we ever hear around here is the dangers of "bias" in big pharma, yet the biases of the contra-experts propped up here are consistently ignored.

Obviously this guy is biased too I suppose?

DR CHARLES HOFFE REVEALS COVID VACCINE CARNAGE OF HIS PATIENTS
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FJ0xxYQzhfrv/

This is something else only a few here consistently ignore.
 
Obviously this guy is biased too I suppose?

DR CHARLES HOFFE REVEALS COVID VACCINE CARNAGE OF HIS PATIENTS
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FJ0xxYQzhfrv/

This is something else only a few here consistently ignore.
I don't know. Haven't looked at it.

I do know that I have heard exactly zero material side effects let alone hospitalization or death from those in my direct personal circle who have taken the Phizer, Moderna, or J&J vaccines. This includes dozens of people across various age and underlying health profiles.

Hardly scientific, but certainly passes for what we're calling evidence around here these days. (i.e., personal anecdotes from individuals or third party references).
 
Hardly scientific, but certainly passes for what we're calling evidence around here these days. (i.e., personal anecdotes from individuals or third party references).

Wow! Simply stunning. When you watch all of it you might understand how absurd that statement is. This is happening all over world.

Just watch it and tell me you actually believe what you just wrote. I'll then know exactly the type of character you are once and for all.
 
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Wow! Simply stunning. When you watch all of it you might understand how absurd that statement is. This is happening all over world.

Just watch it and tell me you actually believe what you just wrote. I'll then know exactly the type of character you are once and for all.

I regret wasting so much time on people like Silence, Malf and Bart V. My concern of 'echo chambers' was ill judged in relation to engagement and trying to bridge the gap when looking at things now.

Silence will play a game of pretending to be sincere and listening to you, but then when you get him on something, you'll see his true colours. A total you know what.

The rest of them speak for themselves....
 
I regret wasting so much time on people like Silence, Malf and Bart V. My concern of 'echo chambers' was ill judged in relation to engagement and trying to bridge the gap when looking at things now.

Silence will play a game of pretending to be sincere and listening to you, but then when you get him on something, you'll see his true colours. A total you know what.

The rest of them speak for themselves....

Yes, I am curious how far he will go. If there is any integrity in him at all. I guess we will find out.

And of course we just ignore vaers as well. Its all anecdotes and correlations, thousands of them. Its all rainbows and unicorns. Nothing to see here. Talk about bias!
 
I regret wasting so much time on people like Silence, Malf and Bart V. My concern of 'echo chambers' was ill judged in relation to engagement and trying to bridge the gap when looking at things now.

Silence will play a game of pretending to be sincere and listening to you, but then when you get him on something, you'll see his true colours. A total you know what.

The rest of them speak for themselves....

Been trying to tell ya'll... my only question now is, which ones are paid and if any, then to each, how much?
 
Been trying to tell ya'll... my only question now is, which ones are paid and if any, then to each, how much?

I think you might be onto something at the very least, even if it's not paid shill stuff, but something else instead. There has been consistent nonsense coming from all three of them that adds up to nothing. I don't know why Malf isn't banned. He adds absolutely nothing to this forum, only that he likes to troll and that's that.

With Silence, I get the impression that I'm talking to a machine than a human tbh. He has consistently downplayed and denied that lockdowns were having tremendous negative effects on people for a very long time over the past year, until just recently. I mean that is a special kind of head in the sand.....

Bart V.....well, he doesn't seem very intelligent quite frankly from my interactions with him. Constant spelling and formatting mistakes. And when pushed on his actual opinion with regards to vaccines, he actually admitted to wanting mandatory ones for participation in 'normal' life, but he would lead you to believe something else with his language. He is a wee snake, full of fear and propaganda.

This forum seems to bring in a lot of these types.....
 
I think you might be onto something at the very least, even if it's not paid shill stuff, but something else instead. There has been consistent nonsense coming from all three of them that adds up to nothing. I don't know why Malf isn't banned. He adds absolutely nothing to this forum, only that he likes to troll and that's that.

With Silence, I get the impression that I'm talking to a machine than a human tbh. He has consistently downplayed and denied that lockdowns were having tremendous negative effects on people for a very long time over the past year, until just recently. I mean that is a special kind of head in the sand.....

Bart V.....well, he doesn't seem very intelligent quite frankly from my interactions with him. Constant spelling and formatting mistakes. And when pushed on his actual opinion with regards to vaccines, he actually admitted to wanting mandatory ones for participation in 'normal' life, but he would lead you to believe something else with his language. He is a wee snake, full of fear and propaganda.

This forum seems to bring in a lot of these types.....
As you may have noticed, I am no longer moderating here, so my suggestion is that you send a PM to Alex and Andy basically repeating what you said above. There was a time when I felt that we needed a few 'sceptics' on the forum, but by now I don't think we do - they really don't discuss much in a coherent way - just pop up here and there to say nothing much!

BTW, my spelling is pretty bad, plus I type too fast, but I use the free version of Grammarly, which seems pretty good to me - though sometimes it quibbles with my choice of where to put a comma.

David
 
BTW, my spelling is pretty bad, plus I type too fast, but I use the free version of Grammarly, which seems pretty good to me - though sometimes it quibbles with my choice of where to put a comma.

David

Well, admittedly, it was a conscious low brow snipe at Bart V. We can all make spelling mistakes etc, and so it's really not that big a deal at all, only that when it comes from certain posters, you notice patterns that indicate ignorance, will-full blindness and insincerity. I believe that all 3 of them are insincere. I may lay on the prickly edge of argumentation myself, but I believe that at least everyone can see where I stand, and that I'm honest and I do it from a place of sincerity.
 
Wow! Simply stunning. When you watch all of it you might understand how absurd that statement is. This is happening all over world.

Just watch it and tell me you actually believe what you just wrote. I'll then know exactly the type of character you are once and for all.
What's absurd LS? The doctor is referencing a sample size of 900 people and doing so in an anecdotal not scientific manner. My social network of which I'm aware isn't quite 900 but its not statistically "different" from the good doctor's. That was my basis for the rather loose comparison.

He mentions a patient with COPD who died within weeks of getting the first vaccine shot. He's very careful to say he doesn't know if it was related to the vaccine or not. The "journalist" still considers this good evidence worthy of cataloguing when it isn't evidence of anything beyond the notion that people die.

He mentions 2 cases of anaphylaxsis in the 900 patient sample. That is certainly more than expected as the doctor quotes Moderna as providing a 1 in 100,000 rate (I didn't fact check this and just assume its correct). That said, there are enough statisticians around here to know that a single 900 person sample isn't near enough to prove the quoted rate of anaphylaxis wrong.

The Canadian government stats show 727 cases of adverse reactions from a total dosage population of 1.35m. Sure, I guess the government's numbers could be doubted, but why then would we accept a lone doctor's numbers as extrapolatory upward?

So, back to my point which was to say I don't know of anyone personally who has had a severe reaction. I'm guessing I know probably 300-400 people who have received at least 1 shot (through both my personal and professional network). Again, totally anecdotal I realize.

You say this is happening "all over the world". I haven't seen evidence of this myself. I'll take your word on it I guess.

And I have no idea why you, and others, presume I'm some sort of bad or unethical actor. I simply don't ascribe to the prevailing "takes" on COVID. Its nothing more. That said, with David now lobbying to have Alex ban those of us with different views don't pretend that we're the sceptics in this case. You're simply not on the moral high ground.
 
Well, admittedly, it was a conscious low brow snipe at Bart V. We can all make spelling mistakes etc, and so it's really not that big a deal at all, only that when it comes from certain posters, you notice patterns that indicate ignorance, will-full blindness and insincerity. I believe that all 3 of them are insincere. I may lay on the prickly edge of argumentation myself, but I believe that at least everyone can see where I stand, and that I'm honest and I do it from a place of sincerity.
For goodness sake DD. There's nothing insincere about my postings. You just don't agree with me. I certainly presume you are sincere and I have no ill will toward you. It boggles my mind that the simple action of not being like minded spawns these character assassinations.
 
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