Coronavirus Pandemic

Comments please on the video, which I couldn't get to upload
Well so far I have only listened to a small portion of the video. I heard one strange mistake. She said that the size of the human genome is 135 TB, and the true figure is 1.5 GB - about 100,000 times smaller - but conceivably the total mass of annotated output from the Human Genome Project came to the larger figure - I don't know.

One thing I do know is that large swathes of science and technology generate extraordinary levels of hype - basically lying - and that confuses these issues enormously. For example, self-drive cars were supposedly just around the corner years ago - so where are they? AI was hyped incredibly in the 1980's, but nothing important came out of it. I suspect the current obsession with AI will end the same way. So what I am saying is that this hype may be what is responsible for the more grandiose ideas of what COVID is all about (transhumanism, Human 2.0, etc). Even so, pushing a novel and untried vaccine on the world is awful enough.

David
 
Around year ago on this thread I started talking about gain of function research with Corona viruses in bats, Fauci's involvement, the highly probable lab leak and even the discovery of the furin cleavage site that had no detectable lineage and more. Of course despite the evidence I was called a conspiracy nut because it was against the official narrative. What crazy nonsense! I think we even had a member leave the forum because he was fed up with such nonsense. Now all this time later the very same story emerges. Very interesting.

 
Around year ago on this thread I started talking about gain of function research with Corona viruses in bats, Fauci's involvement, the highly probable lab leak and even the discovery of the furin cleavage site that had no detectable lineage and more. Of course despite the evidence I was called a conspiracy nut because it was against the official narrative. What crazy nonsense! I think we even had a member leave the forum because he was fed up with such nonsense. Now all this time later the very same story emerges. Very interesting.

I operate in the following way... I assess a situation and then make odds on the various possibilities. I adjust my odds as new information arises (or new considerations emerge).

I have always made odds high that your assertions, LS, were accurate. I was and am very pleased to see (read) a voice such as yours on this very subject. Thank you.
 
I operate in the following way... I assess a situation and then make odds on the various possibilities. I adjust my odds as new information arises (or new considerations emerge).

I have always made odds high that your assertions, LS, were accurate. I was and am very pleased to see (read) a voice such as yours on this very subject. Thank you.
Much appreciated Chester. My point was not to say I was right because we still do not know the truth.

I just wanted to highlight the almost programmed response to possibilities, very real possibilities that are dismissed or ridiculed by the media propogandists and then by individuals who have been conditioned to believe that such empty dismissals actually have merit. Or because it is difficult to fit in with a preconceived world view regardless of the circumstances or evidence to the contrary. It is a familiar pattern I am sure you are quite familiar with.
 
Much appreciated Chester. My point was not to say I was right because we still do not know the truth.

I just wanted to highlight the almost programmed response to possibilities, very real possibilities that are dismissed or ridiculed by the media propogandists and then by individuals who have been conditioned to believe that such empty dismissals actually have merit. Or because it is difficult to fit in with a preconceived world view regardless of the circumstances or evidence to the contrary. It is a familiar pattern I am sure you are quite familiar with.
I also did not say I thought you were right. I stay away from absolutes.
 
and yes... the masses of humanity for the most part appear to be significantly programmed and quite lame. Lovely planet, eh?

But also, IMO, that's each individual's problem to deal with... I hold myself (as an individual) responsible in that way, for myself... and that is why I am an advocate for the appreciation for the state where individuality is present.
 
Around year ago on this thread I started talking about gain of function research with Corona viruses in bats, Fauci's involvement, the highly probable lab leak and even the discovery of the furin cleavage site that had no detectable lineage and more. Of course despite the evidence I was called a conspiracy nut because it was against the official narrative. What crazy nonsense! I think we even had a member leave the forum because he was fed up with such nonsense. Now all this time later the very same story emerges. Very interesting.
Your initial post was challenged due to the conclusionary tone you struck. You made claims about the origin of the virus when there wasn't any conclusive science either way. That remains true to this day. See below:

Firstly this virus based upon the scientific history that is documented in the literature indicates that it is not a naturally occurring virus. It is a chimera. It was actually created in the U.S in North Carolina under the the authority of Dr Fauci. You probably have seen him on the news pointing the finger at China when he actually is the man behind this virus. He went beyond the government restrictions on experimental chimeric virus research and allowed the creation of covid-19, all funded with U.S tax payer dollars. This was outlined in the Journal of Nature in 2015, detailing how the research was done in North Carolina with that research then going back to Wuhan, China via one of the scientists on the team Zheng-Li Shi. She is the representative of the key laboratory of special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan institute of virology. She was the recipient of a number of U.S grants from 2014 as well as the Chinese government for research into coronaviruses.

That is the very brief version. Yes this happened. Whether it escaped or was intentionally released is another matter. The history of this virus goes back further involving the SARS outbreak in the early 2000's I hope to cover all this time permitting, if you are interested? You should be as it concerns all of us and what no doubt will be coming down the pipeline to affect us all.
Michael Patterson is the poster who first challenged your initial post and ultimately, I believe, left the forum. His concern was the assertive nature of your initial post (and subsequent rationale). His view was that the science didn't prove an origin story, natural or otherwise, one way or the other. Your post certainly seemed to be making a different claim (see bold above).

As for the Jimmy Dore video, it raises some interesting questions but is hardly a serious evaluation of the origin question. Its mostly a criticism of Fauci, a lamentation of Trump Derangement Syndrome, and a lazy, often inaccurate attempt to present technical information.

The ongoing question as to the origin of the virus remains interesting and worthy of debate, discussion, and most importantly scientific discovery. As Ron Placone states in the video (loosely quoting), "We don’t know where this thing emerged from but we need to find out so we can be prepared. This whole thing is disgusting. Parroted by corporate media; pushes tribalism takes." I fully agree with him.

For example, the "smoking gun" (furin cleavage site) remains an open question on the natural vs man-made debate. While David Baltimore's Tweet on the topic drew a lot of eyeballs, its hardly conclusive as Dore states (He says at 20:25 in the video: “It was obvious that the origin of the virus was not from nature” and “It wasn’t from a natural origin; it was created”). The article below seems to present a reasonable take on this (i.e., it certainly could be an indicator of lab-creation, but there are open possibilities of this being a naturally occuring phenomena):

https://reason.com/2021/05/13/is-this-a-covid-19-smoking-gun-or-is-it-a-damp-squib/

An additional take that discusses the topic and maintains the furin cleavage site as inconclusive in determining origin:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...-2-furin-cleavage-site-remains-a-mystery.aspx

All of this seems rather vanilla on the conspiratorial scale. Meaning, cover-ups by governments are certainly conspiratorial but certainly not novel. China continues to obfuscate which is seemingly their default position with everything. Does the fact that no animal (bat) populuation has been brought forth by the Chinese government prove this was man-made? No. Does it keep open the real possibility this was lab-made? Certainly. As you stated, we simply don't know as yet.

(Notably, I am in full agreement with you on the need for us to push our authorities/scientists to ferret this out. For a whole host of reasons I might add!)

Finally, the video nor anything in this thread has made a cogent argument for the second element you seem to present: that a lab-created virus was purposefully leaked to initiate a grand "Plandemic" to subjugate humanity. I think its more than safe to say opportunists have pushed their respective agendas in light of the pandemic, but a master plan by a group of coordinated, global elitists remains unproven and woefully lacking in evidence.
 
Thanks for putting such effort in Silence. However I only just stated to Chester that we still don't know and my point was only the reaction to what is now actually being taken seriously. Why the hub, hub? I guess you must identify as one of the sources of my issue I was suggesting?

Just like to make a few little comments, additions, observations and of course corrections

Your initial post was challenged due to the conclusionary tone you struck. You made claims about the origin of the virus when there wasn't any conclusive science either way. That remains true to this day. See below:
So first it is judged on the basis of tone and not the merits? I must admit I am not the best writer so sometimes my intentions can appear very matter of fact and can give the wrong impression. So I do understand and take responsibility for that. However that is completely the wrong reason to reject an idea.

The word I used was "Indicate" in my mind that means "to point to."

Lets see what the video states.

"When I first saw the furin cleavage site in the viral sequence , I said to my wife it was the smoking gun for the origin of the virus," -David Baltimore eminent virologist and former president of Caltech

Now it seems to me that Smoking gun is a much more conclusive term than indicate. Just my opinion. As this is just a opinion, as was mine.

"These features make a powerful challenge to the idea of a natural origin for SARS2"
"Proponents of natural emergence have a rather harder story to tell. The plausibility of their case rests on a single surmise, the expected parallel between the emergence of SARS2 and that of SARS1 and MERs"


OK this is actually much more than I was saying, in fact you can check and see what I eventually came to was that it was probably of natural origin. So this addresses your error in the following....

Michael Patterson is the poster who first challenged your initial post and ultimately, I believe, left the forum. His concern was the assertive nature of your initial post (and subsequent rationale). His view was that the science didn't prove an origin story, natural or otherwise, one way or the other. Your post certainly seemed to be making a different claim (see bold above).
My final conclusion was that it was natural and was most probably accidently leaked. So not as exciting as what is actually on the table now in fact. No one ever bothered to ask for any clarification of my position, which changed as information became available, there were only hissy fits.

I entertained many possibilities, but that was my conclusion and has been for almost the entire duration of this pandemic. No other reason to think anything different. Except now I have to reconsider the very real possibility it was the result of gain of function research. I also know now that it is absolutely possible to create such a thing and have it appear natural. Which was a another issue I had with it.

As for the Jimmy Dore video, it raises some interesting questions but is hardly a serious evaluation of the origin question. Its mostly a criticism of Fauci, a lamentation of Trump Derangement Syndrome, and a lazy, often inaccurate attempt to present technical information.
No, it is a video from a activist and comedian. The clear point is that... what you and others scoffed at, Is actually being treated seriously as a possibility.

The ongoing question as to the origin of the virus remains interesting and worthy of debate, discussion, and most importantly scientific discovery. As Ron Placone states in the video (loosely quoting), "We don’t know where this thing emerged from but we need to find out so we can be prepared. This whole thing is disgusting. Parroted by corporate media; pushes tribalism takes." I fully agree with him.
Absolutely, as do I.

For example, the "smoking gun" (furin cleavage site) remains an open question on the natural vs man-made debate. While David Baltimore's Tweet on the topic drew a lot of eyeballs, its hardly conclusive as Dore states (He says at 20:25 in the video: “It was obvious that the origin of the virus was not from nature” and “It wasn’t from a natural origin; it was created”). The article below seems to present a reasonable take on this (i.e., it certainly could be an indicator of lab-creation, but there are open possibilities of this being a naturally occuring phenomena):
I changed my mind on this. Because I also thought it was inconclusive. That it may have been the result of a recombination event and I simply could not rule that out. That is exactly why I flipped on that issue.

All of this seems rather vanilla on the conspiratorial scale. Meaning, cover-ups by governments are certainly conspiratorial but certainly not novel. China continues to obfuscate which is seemingly their default position with everything. Does the fact that no animal (bat) populuation has been brought forth by the Chinese government prove this was man-made? No. Does it keep open the real possibility this was lab-made? Certainly. As you stated, we simply don't know as yet.
Well thank you! You did actually read my words. You do throw the conspiracy thing a bit, I simply don't think that way, My claim of a conspiracy was in fact in regard to the cover up! The flawed wet market theory specifically. Which is also now essentially a no brainer!

(Notably, I am in full agreement with you on the need for us to push our authorities/scientists to ferret this out. For a whole host of reasons I might add!)
Excellent! Perhaps if these things (that I received such disdain for) were actually considered on merits rather than as dismissive allegations of conspiracy nonsense we would actually may be closer to the truth. Regardless of if it is in fact as it appears, the actual lesson here is how such concerns were treated. They were censored, they were marginalized, they were politicized, they were ridiculed. There is no denying it. It was a disgrace.

What was the word you used? Such a conclusionary tone, or with such a assertive nature that such outlandish stories are just nonsense ramblings of a conspiracy nut.... Well we would be much further along the path to knowing the truth. If it is even possible, which I do doubt. If anything I put on the table turned out false, no harm is done. If it is simply dismissed because it disturbs the normalcy bias, or because of the obsession with "dangerous" conspiracy theories then, quite simply that is a failure of process and of critical reasoning. This is ultimately my motive in mentioning it, and it is the clear lesson that is being learnt ATM regardless of any conclusion.

Do you see the irony yet? My conclusionary tone! vs the conclusionary tones of the agents of dismissal. As well as your blatantly false conclusionary tones throughout this hit piece! It is a complete misrepresentation and your motives I think are similar to reason why you mock in the first place.

Finally, the video nor anything in this thread has made a cogent argument for the second element you seem to present: that a lab-created virus was purposefully leaked to initiate a grand "Plandemic" to subjugate humanity. I think its more than safe to say opportunists have pushed their respective agendas in light of the pandemic, but a master plan by a group of coordinated, global elitists remains unproven and woefully lacking in evidence.
Finally the mother of all strawmen.

My final conclusion was that it was most probably natural and was accidently leaked! I have absolutely no position what so ever on the theory of being a plandemic, I did post on event 201 and certainly the idea of it, and still consider the possibility. Examined lots of ideas but this has been my position.

At the very least it is a crisis that has been used to advance pre existing policies and agendas. I simple do not know and have never claimed such thing as a grand plan to subjugate humanity. So I am actually more aligned to the view you present, but still don't dismiss any possibilities.

You just sat down and wrote what you have imagined and constructed over time, quite clearly you are projecting your preconceptions and assumptions. If you are going to spend so much time responding try at least get your story straight and your facts right.

Why not just try and have a conversation? Try asking for clarification, or further questions to actually know where one stands instead of just going off the deep end?

With all due respect Silence you seem to have a lot of spite and much contempt, you post in such a adversarial and derogatory tone. I am not saying this to insult you. You could be a valuable member and bring a different point of view to many topics where it would be needed.

But no one likes to be regarded in the way that you assert yourself. This is why people talk about putting you on ignore or being a troll or all sorts of other labels. Perhaps you like that sort of attention. It appears that way. Hey I have behaved badly here as well. It has been a great learning experience, it has made me see some things in myself that I did not like. They have become lessons to learn from and not to repeat.

I don't know man, I don't want to ignore you. I would much rather have a conversation if it was actually possible but you simply seem to want to fight constantly. If that's your game then ok. Just try and be smart about it and don't expect any recognition.

Nice talk :)
 
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Even my motive for posting is being talked about, making the exact same point. The absurd and irresponsible treatment of viable hypothesis.

And hey look, a similar disdain just occurred in this thread for pointing even that out!

So is the circle of ignorance. It's a beautiful thing.

NEW DETAILS REVEAL FAUCI, MEDIA COVERUP OF COVID-19 WUHAN LAB LEAK HYPOTHESIS
https://www.bitchute.com/video/OMdxDdKMJPnM/
 
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Here's my take, they were working on this type of virus in the U.S, There were concerns, there were laws to stop it, because yeah WTF?
The Chinese chick who was the head of the Wuhan lab was there. So she's there learning bat stuff, all this is earlier on in the thread btw.
So she's back to Wuhan, probably doing what she was doing back in the U.S., you know, same bat stuff. Making it more virulent or something. I'm fuzzy on the details but yeah it wasn't a secret. Then you got some guy who got pissed on by a bat out in the field. Missing patient zero and some very dodgy stuff with the Wuhan franken virus staff profiles. Shit they were working on these virus just down the road from the wet markets. Yeah, you just can't make this shit up.

Anyway then it's some sort of Bat that doesn't come from that area and sold at the local slop house for soup dinner. It jumps straight into people super easy, no worries. Spread like crazy, Typical shifty old China showing people dead in the streets. Yep, sick as fuck! Think I'll go for a walk down the street and just keel over on the side of the road somewhere. Yet more dodgy stuff in the official story, the cover story that is. Like I said fuzzy.

Next we had US reports surface from a few years earlier warning about the safety risk at The Wuhan Lab and it was definitely pretty shabby. China was right into this shit and wanted to weaponize the crap out it. Who'd have guessed?

Did I mention this lab down the road was doing this sort of shit? And yeah they knew it was shabby AF.

So some lab worker under pretty shit protocols, gets most probably unwittingly contaminated with one of latest projects or even some sample at the Wuhan franken virus factory, run by the Chinese chick that was doing the same bat shit in North Carolina or somewhere. So I think Fauci pulled some tricks to dodge those laws that were blocking this crazy shit and kick started the quest to make this shit worse or at least transmissible to other species, maybe humans or something.

So wow! you got a whole lot of fricken dots that fall in a strong pattern towards the do you, f##ckin think so range?

So the Wuhan franken virus factory f##ked up. The shit got out, lies and bull shit continues just like some other sort of virus ravaging the world. The whole world goes f##ckin nuts. So yeah, you know that old one, it's been in the news a lot I hear, from bat soup! Or was it pangolin, maybe a pangolin drank some bat soup or something? Sorry all seems like so long ago.

So, bla bla bla, Yet more dodgy stuff and bungling, here and there and here we are. Oh, somewhere back there in the story the most obvious line of investigation was marginalized, politicized, censored, labeled as conspiracy crap you might have heard about this? Yeah that old number. So for some reason we'll just believe what someone got told from someone else and we'll then fact check that bitch so no one is going to look at the obvious, for some reason.

So a lot of really dumb F##ks out there, because they were messing with this shit, it was there and there is a direct trail blazing back to the U.S where the Chinese chick was learning her wicked ways then running a known shabby AF level 4 franken virus factory. What's up with that?

So yeah that's what I reckon.

The account is by all means not representative of entire amount of bullshit we have witnessed. And details are in the definite something like that range.
 
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Just had my first shot of Pfizer, named Cominarty over here, no adverse reactions so far.
I do see a new IP accessing my router, weird.
(Serious) An elderly friend yesterday said he is now vaccinated, and no side effects except his wife’s cooking taste better, and laughed about having no idea how that could be, but oh well….

And I’m thinking about the pregnant girl at my work who’s doctor insisted she get the vax before returning to work… actually not thinking so much about her, but rather about her helpless baby.

and I’m the asshole for questioning the science lol
 
Thanks for putting such effort in Silence. However I only just stated to Chester that we still don't know and my point was only the reaction to what is now actually being taken seriously. Why the hub, hub? I guess you must identify as one of the sources of my issue I was suggesting?

Just like to make a few little comments, additions, observations and of course corrections



So first it is judged on the basis of tone and not the merits? I must admit I am not the best writer so sometimes my intentions can appear very matter of fact and can give the wrong impression. So I do understand and take responsibility for that. However that is completely the wrong reason to reject an idea.

The word I used was "Indicate" in my mind that means "to point to."

Lets see what the video states.

"When I first saw the furin cleavage site in the viral sequence , I said to my wife it was the smoking gun for the origin of the virus," -David Baltimore eminent virologist and former president of Caltech

Now it seems to me that Smoking gun is a much more conclusive term than indicate. Just my opinion. As this is just a opinion, as was mine.

"These features make a powerful challenge to the idea of a natural origin for SARS2"
"Proponents of natural emergence have a rather harder story to tell. The plausibility of their case rests on a single surmise, the expected parallel between the emergence of SARS2 and that of SARS1 and MERs"


OK this is actually much more than I was saying, in fact you can check and see what I eventually came to was that it was probably of natural origin. So this addresses your error in the following....



My final conclusion was that it was natural and was most probably accidently leaked. So not as exciting as what is actually on the table now in fact. No one ever bothered to ask for any clarification of my position, which changed as information became available, there were only hissy fits.

I entertained many possibilities, but that was my conclusion and has been for almost the entire duration of this pandemic. No other reason to think anything different. Except now I have to reconsider the very real possibility it was the result of gain of function research. I also know now that it is absolutely possible to create such a thing and have it appear natural. Which was a another issue I had with it.



No, it is a video from a activist and comedian. The clear point is that... what you and others scoffed at, Is actually being treated seriously as a possibility.



Absolutely, as do I.



I changed my mind on this. Because I also thought it was inconclusive. That it may have been the result of a recombination event and I simply could not rule that out. That is exactly why I flipped on that issue.



Well thank you! You did actually read my words. You do throw the conspiracy thing a bit, I simply don't think that way, My claim of a conspiracy was in fact in regard to the cover up! The flawed wet market theory specifically. Which is also now essentially a no brainer!



Excellent! Perhaps if these things (that I received such disdain for) were actually considered on merits rather than as dismissive allegations of conspiracy nonsense we would actually may be closer to the truth. Regardless of if it is in fact as it appears, the actual lesson here is how such concerns were treated. They were censored, they were marginalized, they were politicized, they were ridiculed. There is no denying it. It was a disgrace.

What was the word you used? Such a conclusionary tone, or with such a assertive nature that such outlandish stories are just nonsense ramblings of a conspiracy nut.... Well we would be much further along the path to knowing the truth. If it is even possible, which I do doubt. If anything I put on the table turned out false, no harm is done. If it is simply dismissed because it disturbs the normalcy bias, or because of the obsession with "dangerous" conspiracy theories then, quite simply that is a failure of process and of critical reasoning. This is ultimately my motive in mentioning it, and it is the clear lesson that is being learnt ATM regardless of any conclusion.

Do you see the irony yet? My conclusionary tone! vs the conclusionary tones of the agents of dismissal. As well as your blatantly false conclusionary tones throughout this hit piece! It is a complete misrepresentation and your motives I think are similar to reason why you mock in the first place.



Finally the mother of all strawmen.

My final conclusion was that it was most probably natural and was accidently leaked! I have absolutely no position what so ever on the theory of being a plandemic, I did post on event 201 and certainly the idea of it, and still consider the possibility. Examined lots of ideas but this has been my position.

At the very least it is a crisis that has been used to advance pre existing policies and agendas. I simple do not know and have never claimed such thing as a grand plan to subjugate humanity. So I am actually more aligned to the view you present, but still don't dismiss any possibilities.

You just sat down and wrote what you have imagined and constructed over time, quite clearly you are projecting your preconceptions and assumptions. If you are going to spend so much time responding try at least get your story straight and your facts right.

Why not just try and have a conversation? Try asking for clarification, or further questions to actually know where one stands instead of just going off the deep end?

With all due respect Silence you seem to have a lot of spite and much contempt, you post in such a adversarial and derogatory tone. I am not saying this to insult you. You could be a valuable member and bring a different point of view to many topics where it would be needed.

But no one likes to be regarded in the way that you assert yourself. This is why people talk about putting you on ignore or being a troll or all sorts of other labels. Perhaps you like that sort of attention. It appears that way. Hey I have behaved badly here as well. It has been a great learning experience, it has made me see some things in myself that I did not like. They have become lessons to learn from and not to repeat.

I don't know man, I don't want to ignore you. I would much rather have a conversation if it was actually possible but you simply seem to want to fight constantly. If that's your game then ok. Just try and be smart about it and don't expect any recognition.

Nice talk :)
LS,

I was simply responding to this post:
Around year ago on this thread I started talking about gain of function research with Corona viruses in bats, Fauci's involvement, the highly probable lab leak and even the discovery of the furin cleavage site that had no detectable lineage and more. Of course despite the evidence I was called a conspiracy nut because it was against the official narrative. What crazy nonsense! I think we even had a member leave the forum because he was fed up with such nonsense. Now all this time later the very same story emerges. Very interesting.
As I showed, your initial post in this thread (below) wasn't a "started talking about" post as you indicated above. It was an assertion of certain "just so" things. Other readers can judge for themselves, but I'm not sure how you'd expect any of us to have taken it any other way:

Firstly this virus based upon the scientific history that is documented in the literature indicates that it is not a naturally occurring virus. It is a chimera. It was actually created in the U.S in North Carolina under the the authority of Dr Fauci. You probably have seen him on the news pointing the finger at China when he actually is the man behind this virus. He went beyond the government restrictions on experimental chimeric virus research and allowed the creation of covid-19, all funded with U.S tax payer dollars. This was outlined in the Journal of Nature in 2015, detailing how the research was done in North Carolina with that research then going back to Wuhan, China via one of the scientists on the team Zheng-Li Shi. She is the representative of the key laboratory of special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan institute of virology. She was the recipient of a number of U.S grants from 2014 as well as the Chinese government for research into coronaviruses.

That is the very brief version. Yes this happened. Whether it escaped or was intentionally released is another matter. The history of this virus goes back further involving the SARS outbreak in the early 2000's I hope to cover all this time permitting, if you are interested? You should be as it concerns all of us and what no doubt will be coming down the pipeline to affect us all.
The bold statements weren't presented as ideas or open questions. You presented them as facts; again "just so'isms". I realize you walked it back some with subsequent posts and now have walked it all the way back to "we just don't know". It was the initial post that spawned the reaction from Michael Patterson.

That was really the gist of it. Pretty simple.

As for the actual subject (Was the virus man-made or naturally occurring?), I'm on your side in this regard: We need to find out.
 
LS,

I was simply responding to this post:

As I showed, your initial post in this thread (below) wasn't a "started talking about" post as you indicated above. It was an assertion of certain "just so" things. Other readers can judge for themselves, but I'm not sure how you'd expect any of us to have taken it any other way:
Pretty simply actually, as it is. It's not tricky at all when you strip away all the linguistic trimmings.

The bold statements weren't presented as ideas or open questions. You presented them as facts; again "just so'isms". I realize you walked it back some with subsequent posts and now have walked it all the way back to "we just don't know". It was the initial post that spawned the reaction from Michael Patterson.
That was really the gist of it. Pretty simple.
Ok, so the formalization, the correct verbs, nouns etc... the general tone of things was just not my cup of tea so sorry! So all that inconsequential shit, this was all wrong? OK. The boldness of my statements, yeah that was the thing righto I was just too sure of myself and sometimes not sure at all and then dare to change my mind, all that crap was the thing right?

Of course I must add a disclaimer to each point of interest otherwise it will also be invalidated. That all statements begin with a I don't know shit level of assumption and must be registered with all pre mentioned points of interest. Otherwise all actual content that completely wrecks the bullshit line I'm trying to spin will be regrettably ignored. And possibly be again recycled and ridiculed at later dates.

As for the actual subject (Was the virus man-made or naturally occurring?), I'm on your side in this regard: We need to find out.
Yep, so the investigation was compromised straight out the gate by dismissing any fault of the present fricken goliath of an elephant that is in the room. A f##cking virus lab working on bat viruses! Only a few hundreds of meters from the bullshit wet markets ground zero.

Can you even hear yourself anymore? you might be able top trick yourself into to thinking your doing whatever it is you think your doing but the shit is looking pretty simple from here as well.

There are a lot of dumb f##ckers out there.

Just as I reach a sense of peace, I am forced from the bliss of knowing to the twisted apparition of conformity, indoctrination and normalization and the wonderful accompanying bullshit of Silence :)

Such is the polarity of existence. Sometimes you just need to get your hands dirty I suppose. That is when I use my local dialect a bit, it works pretty good for just the basic shit. Like making a F##ckin point.

Nice talk.
 
This video was posted by Lone Shaman in this post - http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/coronavirus-pandemic.4489/page-119#post-155202


I recently came upon an excerpt of a conversation that occurred on Friday, March 26, 2021 (less than two months ago) during a Chatham House discussion. I find the snippet enlightening.

The participants in the conversation - "featuring former head of Mossad Efraim Halevy, former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove, former acting head of the CIA Jack Devine, former NSA chief Admiral Bobby Inman and more focusing on the evolution of the intelligence sector's impact on affairs of state."

The following is the excerpt -

Q: And either and we're trying to figure out, was it an accident that happened in the lab? Was it an animal jumping to humans or was it some action by some party people in their own country directed from outside by their adversary who caused this to happen as a way of attacking the Communist Party of China? And unless we know or can make a judgment about what the Chinese Communist Party believes happened there, judges what's happened there, it's hard to know their motivation in keeping people out. So I would be intrigued about what either of you think is the Chinese government's attitude about the start of Covid.

Sir Richard Dearlove: Efraim, you want me to say something about that?

Efraim Hallevy: I'd be happy if you said something that I'm not going to say very much. I mean, I think my views are publicly known.

Sir Richard: I mean, all of that moment is that I have in my possession a new paper written by two very distinguished scientists, a virologist and leading immunologist in the U.K. They've already published one paper in the Quarterly Review of BioPhysics, which, as some of you know, sort of leading International Science Journal. And they have a new paper in draft, which is about the etiology of the virus.

I personally am of the view that the science is very compelling, that this is an accidental escape from the Wuhan laboratory.

And the virus was subject to extensive "gain of function" experiments. And the science points very strongly in the direction of, as it were, 'inserts' into the RNA of the virus, which are Highly unlikely to have happened naturally. So the onus really is. I think the scientific onus should shift to the Chinese government to explain why they disagree with this theory. And I think if this article is published, it may help to shift the debate. And that's really and I think what's problematic at the moment is there has been no serious debate. And I'm not saying that I particularly espouse one case or the other.

But what's clear to me, through having helped this group of scientists get their papers published, there's an enormous reluctance to publish anything in the scientific press which disagrees with the Chinese government's line. And I find this extremely worrying because there is so much Chinese money injected into the scientific communities globally, and that includes in the United States and the UK, that a lot of journals just will not touch something that accuses the Chinese government of being partially responsible. And I think there is a clear evidence of a massive intelligence-led

information campaign to make sure that the Chinese government's - the PRC's explanation - is the one that's dominant. And there's a further problem in this in that This, as it was, a scientific theory has been devalued and as it were labeled, as conspiracy because of the line taken by the previous US administration. And I think that's massively contaminated the argument. And it's almost impossible to have an objective discussion about this is I think is most unfortunate. But we'll see what happens. I mean, there has to be an international inquiry, in my view. And the first question the international inquiry has to answer is: where the virus came from or what the like. I mean, the problem is a lot of the science and scientific evidence in China has been obliterated. And it will get down to the position of likelihood arguments rather than conclusive arguments. That's all really I've got to say at this stage.

Q: Efraim, did you want to also add to that ?

Efraim Halevy: No, I think that Sir Richard has given a very comprehensive description of the situation. He is much better informed than I am on that particular issue.
 
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