Thanks for putting such effort in Silence. However I only just stated to Chester that we still don't know and my point was only the reaction to what is now actually being taken seriously. Why the hub, hub? I guess you must identify as one of the sources of my issue I was suggesting?
Just like to make a few little comments, additions, observations and of course corrections
Your initial post was challenged due to the conclusionary tone you struck. You made claims about the origin of the virus when there wasn't any conclusive science either way. That remains true to this day. See below:
So first it is judged on the basis of tone and not the merits? I must admit I am not the best writer so sometimes my intentions can appear very matter of fact and can give the wrong impression. So I do understand and take responsibility for that. However that is completely the wrong reason to reject an idea.
The word I used was "Indicate" in my mind that means "to point to."
Lets see what the video states.
"When I first saw the furin cleavage site in the viral sequence , I said to my wife it was the smoking gun for the origin of the virus," -David Baltimore eminent virologist and former president of Caltech
Now it seems to me that Smoking gun is a much more conclusive term than indicate. Just my opinion. As this is just a opinion, as was mine.
"These features make a powerful challenge to the idea of a natural origin for SARS2"
"Proponents of natural emergence have a rather harder story to tell. The plausibility of their case rests on a single surmise, the expected parallel between the emergence of SARS2 and that of SARS1 and MERs"
OK this is actually much more than I was saying, in fact you can check and see what I eventually came to was that it was probably of natural origin. So this addresses your error in the following....
Michael Patterson is the poster who first challenged your initial post and ultimately, I believe, left the forum. His concern was the assertive nature of your initial post (and subsequent rationale). His view was that the science didn't prove an origin story, natural or otherwise, one way or the other. Your post certainly seemed to be making a different claim (see bold above).
My final conclusion was that it was natural and was most probably accidently leaked. So not as exciting as what is actually on the table now in fact. No one ever bothered to ask for any clarification of my position, which changed as information became available, there were only hissy fits.
I entertained many possibilities, but that was my conclusion and has been for almost the entire duration of this pandemic. No other reason to think anything different. Except now I have to reconsider the very real possibility it was the result of gain of function research. I also know now that it is absolutely possible to create such a thing and have it appear natural. Which was a another issue I had with it.
As for the Jimmy Dore video, it raises some interesting questions but is hardly a serious evaluation of the origin question. Its mostly a criticism of Fauci, a lamentation of Trump Derangement Syndrome, and a lazy, often inaccurate attempt to present technical information.
No, it is a video from a activist and comedian. The clear point is that... what you and others scoffed at, Is actually being treated seriously as a
possibility.
The ongoing question as to the origin of the virus remains interesting and worthy of debate, discussion, and most importantly scientific discovery. As Ron Placone states in the video (loosely quoting), "We don’t know where this thing emerged from but we need to find out so we can be prepared. This whole thing is disgusting. Parroted by corporate media; pushes tribalism takes." I fully agree with him.
Absolutely, as do I.
For example, the "smoking gun" (furin cleavage site) remains an open question on the natural vs man-made debate. While David Baltimore's Tweet on the topic drew a lot of eyeballs, its hardly conclusive as Dore states (He says at 20:25 in the video: “It was obvious that the origin of the virus was not from nature” and “It wasn’t from a natural origin; it was created”). The article below seems to present a reasonable take on this (i.e., it certainly could be an indicator of lab-creation, but there are open possibilities of this being a naturally occuring phenomena):
I changed my mind on this. Because I also thought it was inconclusive. That it may have been the result of a recombination event and I simply could not rule that out. That is exactly why I flipped on that issue.
All of this seems rather vanilla on the conspiratorial scale. Meaning, cover-ups by governments are certainly conspiratorial but certainly not novel. China continues to obfuscate which is seemingly their default position with everything. Does the fact that no animal (bat) populuation has been brought forth by the Chinese government prove this was man-made? No. Does it keep open the real possibility this was lab-made? Certainly. As you stated, we simply don't know as yet.
Well thank you! You did actually read my words. You do throw the conspiracy thing a bit, I simply don't think that way, My claim of a conspiracy was in fact in regard to the cover up! The flawed wet market theory specifically. Which is also now essentially a no brainer!
(Notably, I am in full agreement with you on the need for us to push our authorities/scientists to ferret this out. For a whole host of reasons I might add!)
Excellent! Perhaps if these things (that I received such disdain for) were actually considered on merits rather than as dismissive allegations of conspiracy nonsense we would actually may be closer to the truth. Regardless of if it is in fact as it appears, the actual lesson here is how such concerns were treated. They were censored, they were marginalized, they were politicized, they were ridiculed. There is no denying it. It was a disgrace.
What was the word you used? Such a conclusionary tone, or with such a assertive nature that such outlandish stories are just nonsense ramblings of a conspiracy nut.... Well we would be much further along the path to knowing the truth. If it is even possible, which I do doubt. If anything I put on the table turned out false, no harm is done. If it is simply dismissed because it disturbs the normalcy bias, or because of the obsession with "dangerous" conspiracy theories then, quite simply that is a failure of process and of critical reasoning. This is ultimately my motive in mentioning it, and it is the clear lesson that is being learnt ATM regardless of any conclusion.
Do you see the irony yet? My conclusionary tone! vs the conclusionary tones of the agents of dismissal. As well as your blatantly false conclusionary tones throughout this hit piece! It is a complete misrepresentation and your motives I think are similar to reason why you mock in the first place.
Finally, the video nor anything in this thread has made a cogent argument for the second element you seem to present: that a lab-created virus was purposefully leaked to initiate a grand "Plandemic" to subjugate humanity. I think its more than safe to say opportunists have pushed their respective agendas in light of the pandemic, but a master plan by a group of coordinated, global elitists remains unproven and woefully lacking in evidence.
Finally the mother of all strawmen.
My final conclusion was that it was
most probably natural and was accidently leaked! I have absolutely no position what so ever on the theory of being a plandemic, I did post on event 201 and certainly the idea of it, and still consider the possibility. Examined lots of ideas but this has been my position.
At the very least it is a crisis that has been used to advance pre existing policies and agendas. I simple do not know and have never claimed such thing as a grand plan to subjugate humanity. So I am actually more aligned to the view you present, but still don't dismiss any possibilities.
You just sat down and wrote what you have imagined and constructed over time, quite clearly you are projecting your preconceptions and assumptions. If you are going to spend so much time responding try at least get your story straight and your facts right.
Why not just try and have a conversation? Try asking for clarification, or further questions to actually know where one stands instead of just going off the deep end?
With all due respect Silence you seem to have a lot of spite and much contempt, you post in such a adversarial and derogatory tone. I am not saying this to insult you. You could be a valuable member and bring a different point of view to many topics where it would be needed.
But no one likes to be regarded in the way that you assert yourself. This is why people talk about putting you on ignore or being a troll or all sorts of other labels. Perhaps you like that sort of attention. It appears that way. Hey I have behaved badly here as well. It has been a great learning experience, it has made me see some things in myself that I did not like. They have become lessons to learn from and not to repeat.
I don't know man, I don't want to ignore you. I would much rather have a conversation if it was actually possible but you simply seem to want to fight constantly. If that's your game then ok. Just try and be smart about it and don't expect any recognition.
Nice talk :)