Are there any paranormal phenomena AT ALL??

Johann said:
It sounds like some sort of recording bias. Rhine empirically ran tests for these with reference to ESP cards, and found that biased recording errors do occur, but at the rate of less than 1%.
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...which he could only do for a bias separable and cognizable.
 
It was also asked "why doesn't this happen more often."? Of course, this is a good enough question, that applies to any interpretation. However, I think there is good reason why such pedantic formalism is suppressed to the unconscious. To not have it so, would put the "technical director" in the driving seat of mammalian life, and in the real world this works out to autism or similar in most cases. The "managing director" is in nominal charge for a reason...it enables us to potter around, make choices, have an experience that isn't overwhelmed moment to moment by huge amounts of subliminally present data.
 
radicalpolitik said:
I'm sorry, I'm just so depressed right now. I don't know wether any of this stuff is even real or not :(
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Well no one has a smoking gun outside of anecdotes. That said, this whole SMB thing is starting to seem as magical as the phenomenon it wants to explain away.

Plus I think dwelling on this stuff isn't the best idea either, especially if you're depressed. Distractions are good.

Here's a link to varied mental health resources, along with things like prescription assistance that might be useful though primarily it's all for the US. (Have to scroll down till you see the roman numeral Table of Contents.)
 
Sciborg_S_Patel said:
this whole SMB thing is starting to seem as magical as the phenomenon it wants to explain away.
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As far as I can see, the only concrete examples that Kai has brought to the table to explain the principle of SMB have been patently absurd and easily controlled for (see the "squares as circles" posts above) and irrelevant to the way psi experiments are actually performed (see the "horizontal array" posts).
 
electricfunk said:
As far as I can see, the only concrete examples that Kai has brought to the table to explain the principle of SMB have been patently absurd and easily controlled for (see the "squares as circles" posts above) and irrelevant to the way psi experiments are actually performed (see the "horizontal array" posts).
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It would be a nice world, wouldn't it, if we could control for everything. But unfortunately we can't, and unfortunately we can't step outside of the kind of minds and the kind of brains that we are. Of course, I can't say, nor would I say, definitively that psi can't exist. What I do say, is the empirical level of demonstration I see in parapsychology leaves me with big doubts. As someone said on the thread, there are no smoking guns. And there really aren't. There's barely a lingering scent of cordite detectable by a bloodhound. But who knows? Maybe psi exist. Imo, it would have to be a trenchantly evasive phenomenon.
 
You are missing the point of the example, "absurd." OF COURSE it's absurd! I deliberately made it absurd. Not that it is meant to be a real example, but to illustrate that if you cannot cognize the problem you cannot compensate for it.
 
Kai said:
You are missing the point of the example, "absurd." OF COURSE it's absurd! I deliberately made it absurd. Not that it is meant to be a real example, but to illustrate that if you cannot cognize the problem you cannot compensate for it.
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Of course you can. Automated methods of data collection can compensate for human errors that might otherwise have gone undetected.
 
electricfunk said:
Like using a computer to record what target was selected and what response was made on each trial.
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Oh sure, but data still has to enter the minds of the researchers, and it's trivial to alter the situation to a formal response that hits that input whether it is graphics, words, columns of figures etc. The fact is, if you can't cognize the problem you don't know how to deal with it. And sometimes, even if you CAN cognize the problem, you can't necessarily deal with it (as, for instance, if feedback-based retro-pk experiments are actually subliminal detections of seed pattern).
 
Kai said:
But unfortunately we can't, and unfortunately we can't step outside of the kind of minds and the kind of brains that we are.
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Any evidence as to why we should want to step out of the minds that landed men on the moon, conceived of and applied quantum theory, determined the temperature and expansion rates seconds after the big bang… I mean anything besides not being able to convince you that we can’t control effects in psi experiments?

Kai said:
What I do say, is the empirical level of demonstration I see in parapsychology leaves me with big doubts.
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Well look elsewhere, or let the flame burn out already! Maybe it will light up again in your next life. :)

Cheers,
Bill
 
Kai said:
As someone said on the thread, there are no smoking guns. And there really aren't. There's barely a lingering scent of cordite detectable by a bloodhound.
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I don't know, these results seem to suggest something interesting is going on:

Dream telepathy is a field that has treated Krippner well. He doesn't have much company. Prominent skeptic Ray Hyman praises Krippner's dream lab studies as "interesting work" and admits "there's no smoking gun to say they didn't have something." But, he adds, no one has ever duplicated the striking success of the Maimonides dream lab — a charge to which Krippner pleads guilty. "There you have it," he admits with a shrug. This, he notes, is a perfect example of skeptics' standby critique of parapsychology — it just doesn't repeat on demand.

And yet, it's not so easy to dismiss Krippner's overall assertion that something — something — was happening in those experiments to indicate we don't yet understand every last mystery of the universe. As a teenage lab assistant and subject, Fischer dreamed of men struggling to walk against a snowstorm. As the agent that night, Krippner concentrated on a Japanese portrait of just that. Many decades later, Fischer accompanied Krippner to a symposium in Kyoto. As they left for their hotel, a snowstorm whipped up, and the men struggled to walk against it.
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Kai said:
Oh sure, but data still has to enter the minds of the researchers, and it's trivial to alter the situation to a formal response that hits that input whether it is graphics, words, columns of figures etc.
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If we've automated our data collection, all that is left is a disagreement over the interpretation of the results. A 40% hit rate is a 40% hit rate, whether you like it or not. Unless you are now going to illustrate your point by suggesting that the entire scientific research community can't read or have incurable myopia?
 
electricfunk said:
If we've automated our data collection, all that is left is a disagreement over the interpretation of the results. A 40% hit rate is a 40% hit rate, whether you like it or not. Unless you are now going to illustrate your point by suggesting that the entire scientific research community can't read or have incurable myopia?
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Not sure what your point is with that, sorry. My point is that our own unconscious formalism will not be cognizable, for the most part.
 
Arouet said:
Johann: those 63 Bem replications you are referring to: are they available online? Can you post the links? I've tried some googling but haven't been able to find many.
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They are from an MA that is still in press, conducted by Tressoldi, Rabeyron, Duggan, and Bem.
 
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