Dr. Jeffrey Long, Near-Death Experience By the Numbers |502|

#47
I'd like to queue up a question for next time.

Assuming (probably shouldn't on this, but I do).. Assuming the NDE realm is a different place, outside of our time-and-space realm..

What part of the NDE's would indicate that they are actually taking place in an outside realm, rather than just being drawn from unidentified parts of this realm, such as the Akashic record, an Earth Collective, Sheldrakes Morphogenetic Field, or even a radio-field-with-memory our science just hasn't discovered yet..???

If we don't press on that question, aren't we just fellowshipping religiously about spiritual experiences?

Jesus (if real as told biblically) had the highest active connection with God of any recorded being, and still doubted at the end "..why hast thou forsaken me?".
Robbedigital, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! Thanks for making this point, man! These are the kinds of questions that need to be asked.
 
#48
Awesome episode and classical Alex pushing those hard questions that break a lot of scholastically sound people. I thought Jeffrey Long was going to trip about the Jesus inquiry regarding NDE experiences at one point, but the man stayed calm enough to answer the questions. I could be wrong, but Long seems to be a Christian without pontificating the point. My only evidence is that he punctuated how detailed descriptions were of Jesus in NDE accounts. Perhaps he was just telling the truth of his data analysis, but I have inquiries to perpetuate doubt down that road. Regardless, much respect to Dr. Long and his work. Also, Alex, FUCKING loved this episode.....very refreshing after the speed bump of the Christian apologist!
 
#49
Enjoyed this! Back to old-school Skeptiko topics.

Question at the end: Search the database and share one that interests you.

I searched Logos.
https://www.nderf.org/search.htm

I am interested in: pattern, boundary, will, logos, ontology, feedback loops (judgment), soul goals (hmm good title for a book), etc. ...and found all kinds of bits in here that back up my philosophy of patternism:
https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1jb_nde.html

"Then all of a sudden, I was approaching an amazing, truly indescribable white shining, light. This light was scintillating, every particle of it alive and full of the purest, highest love. It was tantalizing, brilliant, beautiful, living and moving. ...I sped to the Light but at the very moment of union, I heard a loud, sonorous, authoritative, masculine voice, coming into me from all directions ask, 'Are you ready to die?' When I heard this, everything came to a stop. I was completely aghast. I was, and had been, totally ignorant that reaching, meeting and going into this 'beyond everything else' and 'all knowing light', astonishingly meant my death! I felt betrayed. Then, filled with great fear in my thinking and responding (both occur simultaneously here), I quiveringly asked, 'Why must I die?' Instantaneously the Voice replied, 'You must die, because you have failed to do what you promised us.'"

We are at our core ONE with THE ONE, but we split off into fragments and do things. We do things because we want to do things: WILL. The purest expression of WILL is movement or light and so that is how the NDE begins. When we do things we leave behind structure as a sort of excretion. It stinks a little bit but also fertilizes. This structure creates both limitations and options to do different things (you cannot choose door A or door B unless there are walls and doors - boundaries/structure - to begin with). As we go through this feedback loop of goal origination and goal fulfillment and judgment where we see how close we came to the target or how much we fell short (sinned) the structure complexifies and becomes a nested structure of being within being within being like Russian nesting dolls. Our individual identity in this life is but one iteration of our Soul's attempt at fulfilling some goals of its own and our Soul is just one Russian nesting doll above us.

Just as we train an AI agent by running a simulation over and over again with the intent at improvement towards a goal, our soul is analogous to an AI agent that is being trained towards achieving a goal. If we don't succeed, we die just as the neuronal connections that are unprofitable towards the goal are diminished and those that improve the ability to achieve the goal are rewarded and strengthened.

It is extremely unlikely that we will succeed and that makes it worth it when we do succeed. Just like millions of sperm go out in attempt to fertilize one egg and only one succeeds in achieving the goal, millions of attempts are made at achieving the goal before success. It is harder for your soul to be saved than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Then again on the other hand, you are One with the ONE so if you get burned up for failing as she almost did before she was given a second chance, it isn't THAT big of a deal. :)

Also, to keep things in perspective so you don't regain too much of a fear of death: the boundary we draw around ourselves is flexible. Part of you might die or be burned up in the feedback loops which some have called judgment and the refiner's fire or hell and part of you might remain. Everything is in flux but it is all organized around a structure which is organized around a hierarchical set of goals - WILL driving the whole thing in exploration of anything and everything that it is possible to do.

So our lives don't merely have a higher purpose... purpose infuses everything because nothing would exist without purpose because purpose drives action towards a goal and that leaves behind structure which both inhibits Will and creates new possible choices. It is like a big wheel of Karma and you can get off by dying which is to cease all ambition and merge with the light but eventually you find yourself as she did speeding through infinite darkness (motion - the purest expression of will) and the whole thing lights up again.
This is beautifully written! I want to do the same kind of poetry for not just light, but the purity and beauty of eternal darkness. I wonder if anybody has ever had an NDE whereas they see a tunnel of darkness that is all powerful and all comforting. A perfect kind of eternal unborn, feeding off of the comfort of mother night, pumping all the nutrients "ambilocally" into my flesh anomaly , without a care or worry for the world and all time. Not to deny light, but to have it only by candle, fire, and delight. The bed of eternal darkness mired by the screechy lullaby of birth!
 
#50
This is beautifully written! I want to do the same kind of poetry for not just light, but the purity and beauty of eternal darkness. I wonder if anybody has ever had an NDE whereas they see a tunnel of darkness that is all powerful and all comforting. A perfect kind of eternal unborn, feeding off of the comfort of mother night, pumping all the nutrients "ambilocally" into my flesh anomaly , without a care or worry for the world and all time. Not to deny light, but to have it only by candle, fire, and delight. The bed of eternal darkness mired by the screechy lullaby of birth!
It’s nested repeating patterns all the way down. Everything real is a metaphor.

Birth is a metaphor. Quiet rhythms in the womb of nurturing darkness. Then motion. Then out the tunnel of darkness into the light. Breath. Screaming. Pain and trauma. Then calm and peace. For a little while.

I think what people experience in the NDE is sort of collapsing back through all the nested patterns of being and then back up through them again, so the tunnel of darkness into the light represents the very origination of being itself.

The eye is a metaphor too. A formless black circle. A white circle. In between a boundary where there is color and intricate design. Consciousness rides along the boundary between the two.
 
#52
100%
Top of the societal control wish list would be convincing foreign military that you have the secret weapon. But if that doesn’t work, will settle for convincing your own people of it.
I disagree, its about %90 its all USA Top Secret Hardware, those UFO's you see on Fox News now.
 
#53
Robbedigital, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! Thanks for making this point, man! These are the kinds of questions that need to be asked.
I believe we live in a created realm, and that the creator did not include evidence of the outside realm, but rather engineered human love to hint toward that realm. So, whenever I hear the word "evidence" being used to describe the connections or experiences of the outside realm, I have to push back.
Aside from evidence, I think there's worlds of discovery to be pulled from those experiences, but it's just extremely tempting for us to give up searching and slap the label "evidence" on anything that's enticing or promising. Screw that! Let's find out WHEN the experience is tranceived, and study all the qualities of that moment. (aka, the dead body on the hospital bed surely isn't experiencing it..... so when does it transfer, and how??)
 
#55
It’s nested repeating patterns all the way down. Everything real is a metaphor.

Birth is a metaphor. Quiet rhythms in the womb of nurturing darkness. Then motion. Then out the tunnel of darkness into the light. Breath. Screaming. Pain and trauma. Then calm and peace. For a little while.

I think what people experience in the NDE is sort of collapsing back through all the nested patterns of being and then back up through them again, so the tunnel of darkness into the light represents the very origination of being itself.

The eye is a metaphor too. A formless black circle. A white circle. In between a boundary where there is color and intricate design. Consciousness rides along the boundary between the two.
Perhaps life has no escape from itself, and a near death experience is only another kind of an almost born again experience.
 
#56
I believe we live in a created realm, and that the creator did not include evidence of the outside realm, but rather engineered human love to hint toward that realm. So, whenever I hear the word "evidence" being used to describe the connections or experiences of the outside realm, I have to push back.
Aside from evidence, I think there's worlds of discovery to be pulled from those experiences, but it's just extremely tempting for us to give up searching and slap the label "evidence" on anything that's enticing or promising. Screw that! Let's find out WHEN the experience is tranceived, and study all the qualities of that moment. (aka, the dead body on the hospital bed surely isn't experiencing it..... so when does it transfer, and how??)
I agree with you that it is important to not give up searching. I like the point that you make about "evidence" as well. In my unhumble opinion, I actually don't think that it is difficult to connect with the "outside" realm. Rather, the bovine inertia of this "realm," the force of habit and herd conformity, make such connections seem to be superstitious anomalies. Nevertheless, the evidence of the paranormal will be inscrutably torn apart, no matter how de facto it is. Why? - Because people want to be sure of who and what they are. This is actually a protracted admitting of being completely unsure of who and what they really are. In other words, they need laws. The only laws in nature are those that were chosen by men to judge one another; - otherwise, nature is free and eternal.
 
#57
Perhaps life has no escape from itself, and a near death experience is only another kind of an almost born again experience.
Exactly. Originally the “born again” were probably initiated by drowning to attempt to have an NDE. This got “watered down” when distributed to the masses in the form of mere dunking or spritzing baptisms.

You could appropriately say those with an NDE got born again. They come back as new people in a way.
 
#60
I agree with you that it is important to not give up searching. I like the point that you make about "evidence" as well. In my unhumble opinion, I actually don't think that it is difficult to connect with the "outside" realm. Rather, the bovine inertia of this "realm," the force of habit and herd conformity, make such connections seem to be superstitious anomalies. Nevertheless, the evidence of the paranormal will be inscrutably torn apart, no matter how de facto it is. Why? - Because people want to be sure of who and what they are. This is actually a protracted admitting of being completely unsure of who and what they really are. In other words, they need laws. The only laws in nature are those that were chosen by men to judge one another; - otherwise, nature is free and eternal.
Science has a real hard-on for labelling any thing for which we don't have evidence "illusion".
I'd like to imagine that if Mr. Rogers were alive today, he would tell Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye to go *$%^ themselves.
 
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