Mod+ EMDR and Induced After-Life Communication

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So many people want to have a personal experience of Psi, something meaningful and evidential to them. Allan L. Botkin claims to have a reliable means of inducing an experience on par with NDEs in terms of transformational power, without the associated risks. There were debates in the old forum about whether or not someone should try to have an NDE (if it could be made safe) just to experiment with the after-effects of such experiences. According to this psychologist, it is no longer just a theoretical possibility and there are places around the world offering such an experience.

So is anyone in the forum ready to sign up and try it?

 
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Actually, I believe the same type of experiences can be had with the Lucia Light Simulator, mentioned by Anthony Peake. And also with auditory stimulation techniques like HemiSync, which is really no different than the old practice of drumming. Then there is the psychomantheum designed by Dr. Moody back in Alabama, where he induced encounters with the deceased through mirror-gazing. So there seem to be many ways. Drumming, mirror-gazing, light-auditory stimulations.

No, I don't think you need to be an inch away from having your life taken. Even Eben Alexander said that that's not necessary (what is Eben recommending these days, I'm not quite sure). Nor are hallucinogens like DMT or ayahuasca seem to be necessary. But the quality and the reliability of such experiences might differ. The issue with IADC is that it's an offshoot of EMDR and the supposed technique, if done by a novice, can induce unduly intense and stressful encounters that you may not be ready for. But then lots of NDEs are like that as well.
 
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Eben Alexander has been recommending binaural beat recordings as a way to facilitate spiritual experiences. He is working with Karen Newell and Kevin Kossi.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+stairway+to+heaven+may+be+sound.-a0351080675
Alexander stumbled across the answer in November 2011 while attending an expanded consciousness seminar where he met Kevin Kossi and Karen Newell. Kossi was an engineer who'd had a near-death experience due to heart problems; Newell had had a number of out-of-body experiences. Together, they'd created audio recordings that led the brain into altered states. Curious, Alexander asked to hear a sample.

Headphones on, eyes closed, reclined on a couch, Alexander was swept away in a stream of sound filled with gongs, chants, and drumbeats. He wasn't sure where he went, but it felt strikingly similar to the world he'd inhabited during his coma. "It was incredibly powerful," Alexander recalls. Although he'd heard meditative recordings before, "these were industrial strength."

This unique cocktail of science and spirituality was exactly what Alexander had been searching for, so for the next year, he, Kossi, and Newell started listening to the recordings together, fine-tuning and comparing notes. Although they lived in different cities, by listening to the same recording at the same time they were able to connect telepathically in this netherworld, as was evidenced by the undeniable similarity of their stories. "Once, I remember all of us assembling at the end of a wormhole in the middle of a stormy ocean," Alexander says. "Astonishingly, we were all having similar experiences, and were aware of each other's presence."

Here is a recent interview with Dr Alexander and Karen Newell:

 
So Eben's been able to replicate what he experienced during his NDE. I remember during one of his Monroe Institute lectures that he talked about finally being able to meet his deceased dad. During one of these HemiSync or Sacred Acoustics sessions, apparently, his dad explained to him why he was not the person to greet him but it had to be his sister. So Eben has been making rounds. Like Melen Thomas Benedict and Nancy Danilson, he's been able to go back to the Source. He's a full-fledged shaman now. So who's brave enough to try these Sacred Acoustics?

http://www.soundstrue.com/shop/Discover-Your-Own-Proof-of-Heaven/4219.pd

This unique cocktail of science and spirituality was exactly what Alexander had been searching for, so for the next year, he, Kossi, and Newell started listening to the recordings together, fine-tuning and comparing notes. Although they lived in different cities, by listening to the same recording at the same time they were able to connect telepathically in this netherworld, as was evidenced by the undeniable similarity of their stories. "Once, I remember all of us assembling at the end of a wormhole in the middle of a stormy ocean," Alexander says. "Astonishingly, we were all having similar experiences, and were aware of each other's presence." In their most daring moments, the trio toyed with a "coma tape"--a recording that could induce the near-zero brain frequencies one would encounter in a coma. "Only what if we don't come back?" Kossi asked. They signed waivers just in case.

In November 2012, Alexander appeared on The Dr. Oz Show to talk about brainwave entrainment. To show how it worked, an audience member volunteered to listen to their tapes. Afterward, "she recounted how she's spoken with her dead mother," Newell recalls. "We put a free sample recording on the Dr. Oz website. Five thousand people downloaded it in two weeks and wanted more." So they created an online video course, Discover Your Own Proof of Heaven (Soundstrue.com, $59).

Eben Alexander has been recommending binaural beat recordings as a way to facilitate spiritual experiences. He is working with Karen Newell and Kevin Kossi. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The stairway to heaven may be sound.-a0351080675
 
So Eben's been able to replicate what he experienced during his NDE. I remember during one of his Monroe Institute lectures that he talked about finally being able to meet his deceased dad. During one of these HemiSync or Sacred Acoustics sessions, apparently, his dad explained to him why he was not the person to greet him but it had to be his sister. So Eben has been making rounds. Like Melen Thomas Benedict and Nancy Danilson, he's been able to go back to the Source. He's a full-fledged shaman now. So who's brave enough to try these Sacred Acoustics?

http://www.soundstrue.com/shop/Discover-Your-Own-Proof-of-Heaven/4219.pd

There is nothing sacred about the binaural beats. Nor will they thrust you into another dimension on the first listen. They are just one tool in a big toolbox. And like any tool you need to have prepared beforehand to get anything out of it's use, if it even works at all for you. There are no easy answers. There may be no answers at all. Especially ones that people are trying to sell you. As much as I appreciate Robert Monroe's books, TMI has really priced itself into a range acceptable only to the wealthy.
 
So many people want to have a personal experience of Psi, something meaningful and evidential to them. Allan L. Botkin claims to have a reliable means of inducing an experience on par with NDEs in terms of transformational power, without the associated risks.
Just a note since you mention evidential, I'm pretty sure Botkin himself believes these ADC experiences occur only in the mind of the person experiencing it, and are not an actual communication.

Cheers,
Bill
 
Well, it occurs in the mind but I think many people believe these to be "actual communication," including Botkin, from the deceased. What other explanations do you think these people are clinging to. Botkin publicly says he does not know what these are. But that's for the purpose of remaining distant and disinterested as a psychotherapist. I'm pretty sure he himself believes these are actual
communications. Why else would he call it, "Induced After-Death Communication."
Just a note since you mention evidential, I'm pretty sure Botkin himself believes these ADC experiences occur only in the mind of the person experiencing it, and are not an actual communication. Cheers, Bill
 
The Monroe Institute does something similar, at least in the respect that they aim at guiding the living to encounter those in the non-physical. They call it their Lifeline program. Lots of people who have gone through the program claim to have brought back information that they later confirmed to be veridical. I've never seen any of the information really presented in an organized manner that would allow others to profit from such evidence. I find it interesting, but I need to remain skeptical until they become more forthcoming in sharing the data that they have gathered. You would think since Lifeline has been going on for decades that there would be a mountain of data.
 
Well, it occurs in the mind but I think many people believe these to be "actual communication," including Botkin, from the deceased. What other explanations do you think these people are clinging to. Botkin publicly says he does not know what these are. But that's for the purpose of remaining distant and disinterested as a psychotherapist. I'm pretty sure he himself believes these are actual
communications. Why else would he call it, "Induced After-Death Communication."
I'm going by what his co-author, Craig Hogan told me. That was quite a while ago, maybe he changed his mind, I don't know.

Cheers,
Bill
 
I believe this is their Gateway Outreach program and Eben Alexander seems to have participated in it. It's centered on Robert Monroe's books and Tom Campbell's research regarding focus levels: 10, 12, 27. Tom Campbell is the researcher who's mentioned in the book; he's a disciple of Monroe and he synthesized what he learned in a book, "My Big Toe." Yes, there would be a mountain of data. But how would they be any different in convincing skeptics than, say, the data gathered from psychics or IADC. They're not going to buy this. Plus, we have Tom Campbell himself who says the NDEs may not be what they seem, i.e., the deceased are not really who they seem to be but actually the Source just trying to appease us and put us at ease for the phase of transition. That is a very different interpretation of NDEs; if Tom's right, then the NDEs are engineered to elicit a specific response from us and is purely for the purpose of facilitating our transition.

The Monroe Institute does something similar, at least in the respect that they aim at guiding the living to encounter those in the non-physical. They call it their Lifeline program. Lots of people who have gone through the program claim to have brought back information that they later confirmed to be veridical. I've never seen any of the information really presented in an organized manner that would allow others to profit from such evidence. I find it interesting, but I need to remain skeptical until they become more forthcoming in sharing the data that they have gathered. You would think since Lifeline has been going on for decades that there would be a mountain of data.
 
I believe this is their Gateway Outreach program and Eben Alexander seems to have participated in it. It's centered on Robert Monroe's books and Tom Campbell's research regarding focus levels: 10, 12, 27. Tom Campbell is the researcher who's mentioned in the book; he's a disciple of Monroe and he synthesized what he learned in a book, "My Big Toe." Yes, there would be a mountain of data. But how would they be any different in convincing skeptics than, say, the data gathered from psychics or IADC. They're not going to buy this. Plus, we have Tom Campbell himself who says the NDEs may not be what they seem, i.e., the deceased are not really who they seem to be but actually the Source just trying to appease us and put us at ease for the phase of transition. That is a very different interpretation of NDEs; if Tom's right, then the NDEs are engineered to elicit a specific response from us and is purely for the purpose of facilitating our transition.

I'm pretty tuned into the TMI stuff. Like I say--I'm a fan of Robert Monroe. I like Bruce Moen's stuff. I just don't think TMI has done that great a job at their intended purpose. I can understand keeping prices high because they have limited facilities. But their products are also really expensive. And I just think keeping their data close to the vest because "it isn't going to convince skeptics anyway" is a dumb idea. I'm not a huge Campbell fan but only because the people that populate his forum are insane. It's all fine there until you start to question something Tom has said. Especially his talks about the double slit experiment where he makes some claims that are entirely unsubstantiated by science.
 
You're saying they have some kind of data. What kind of data would they have? First, I doubt they have any such data. Second, even if they did, they aren't gonna convince anyone. Third, yes, the My Big Toe forum is hard to wade through because of the high noise/signal ratio. But Tom himself is fairly open-minded and encourages his readers to questions everything, including his theories. I can't say much about his followers, since they can't put a coherent sentence or thought together. But then, like in everything, they reflect the giant Bell Curve, the normative mean that's well within 2 standard deviations -- the grey mediocrity. Tom's book is not exactly easy to read and nearly impossible to finish. But his ideas excite these people, who like being merry and collegial by discussing Tom's ideas.

And I just think keeping their data close to the vest because "it isn't going to convince skeptics anyway" is a dumb idea.
 
You're saying they have some kind of data. What kind of data would they have? First, I doubt they have any such data. Second, even if they did, they aren't gonna convince anyone.

I seem to remember a documentary that included the Lifeline program. (I think the program we are talking about is called Lifeline. http://www.monroeinstitute.org/programs/lifeline) And they interviewed some of the participants and there was some effort to follow up on some of the names and places given by those in the non-physical. I can't think of the name of the movie and I'm too lazy to look it up. It's out there. The Lifeline program has been going on for over 20 years. That means a least a couple thousand people have been through the program. Bruce Moen talks about some data he considered veridical in his books. I'm not saying that they have conducted scientific trials involving the Lifeline program. But surely there have been some hits where people have been able to verify data provided in the non-physical. Do you think that isn't true? Over 20 years of participants in Lifeline? If they don't have a pile of interesting stories, then I think the whole thing is something other than we have been led to believe.

If you listened to the most recent podcast, then you heard David Lane talk about Baba Faqir Chand. Chand was a master of Surat Shabda Yoga, which Lane describes as a discipline where the practitioner can enter into an OBE basically at will. After a lifetime of exploration in this state Chand was still unwilling to declare whether the non-physical territory that had become so familiar to him was a representation of some other reality, or whether it all had only existed in his imagination. We must be careful to distinguish between what we want to be true and what is actually true. It is easy for Robert Bruce to describe visiting with his Mother and Aunt in the non-physical and to have the experience seem more real than his experiences in this physical reality. But there is no way for us to determine 100% that it is simply not the power of Robert Bruce's mind creating this experience. Even at night while asleep, a simple dream can contain experiences that seem upon recall to be as filled with every sense as sitting down to breakfast. Is the dream created in the mind? Is the dream an experience of a non-physical existence. We cannot know.

So I think it would make a difference if TMI would publish any information about veridical experiences anyone has had in any of their programs. I also think it would make a difference if they would make their programs more affordable and make their materials more accessible.

There is good evidence to support that the OBE has played an important role in occult practices at least from the time of the ancient Greeks. Though some have argued that the OBE is virtually indistinguishable from dreaming or lucid dreaming, I would argue that the most powerful OBE, one where the practitioner enters non-physical reality with full access to their waking consciousness is an important and relatively unexplored alternate state of consciousness. It is essential, in my opinion, that those who are interested should strive to attain this state, especially so that its attainment and control can be better mapped, that others may more easily attain the state in the near future. I think we need to divorce the OBE from the trappings of the New Age. The OBE, in my mind should be viewed as a human experience, not a spiritual one. We need more practitioners who can attain the state with open eyes and clear minds so that we can more readily determine the true nature of the experience. The OBE needs to be demystified and the experience needs to be tested without the expectation that one is entering into the realm of the divine, but also without the cynical "knowledge" that the territory traversed there is only within the confines of the mind.
 
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