Nelson
Member
I take into account many forms of evidence: first-hand, anecdotes from those I know well, anecdotes from researchers, and meta-analysis.
Jason Jorjani. Does AI = PSI? |589|
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I take into account many forms of evidence: first-hand, anecdotes from those I know well, anecdotes from researchers, and meta-analysis.
Nelson
Member
In contrast to you:
...which is odd, as you've already said you think the universe is a collectively created reality. So to ignore third parties appears to be ignorant
...which is odd, as you've already said you think the universe is a collectively created reality. So to ignore third parties appears to be ignorant
Having confidence in your Instincts and experiences doesn't mean you ignore other people views.
What gives you that impression?
The fact I talked about co-creation shows that!
But to get to the level of trusting people that contradict basic principles or that preach incoherent theories ,that's blind faith. (shut up and calculate!)
Don't strawman man Me. Ask questions to clarify.
You see,why would I need a researcher a priestly class to tell me things I've already experienced?
Do they know my experience better than me?
Do you think there are not others who follow your same "methodology" of scientism yet reject reincarnation? So who is right?
And finally,be brave here. Stop avoiding. What's wrong with the numerous accounts of abrahamic NDEs? All they all biased? What researchers have discredited the numerous abrahamic mythologies?
Let's take Rupert Sheldrakes research on "the sense of being stared at".
You think that people were not aware of this beforehand?!
I've always known this. So do most people. It's just not accepted to talk about it in official or scientific circles!
Sheldrake is CONFIRMING an obvious phenomenon. Which is all good.
But now you gonna elevate the researcher to the position of telling you your own experiences! Telling you what you already knew!
And those that already know this telepathic sense and in fact have used it all their life,do you think we NEED researchers to reinvent the wheel?
You know,this is pretty simple Nelson.
How far do you let "resesrch" dictate and inform your basic solid personal experiences?
You think that people were not aware of this beforehand?!
I've always known this. So do most people. It's just not accepted to talk about it in official or scientific circles!
Sheldrake is CONFIRMING an obvious phenomenon. Which is all good.
But now you gonna elevate the researcher to the position of telling you your own experiences! Telling you what you already knew!
And those that already know this telepathic sense and in fact have used it all their life,do you think we NEED researchers to reinvent the wheel?
You know,this is pretty simple Nelson.
How far do you let "resesrch" dictate and inform your basic solid personal experiences?
Nelson
Member
I'm not elevating a researcher to that position. I'm looking at many sources (incl. my own first-hand experiences) and using discernment.
Furthermore, the example you gave of Sheldrake is straightforward; whereas much of the UFO phenomena is far from it, highly telepathic and purposefully deceptive.
You can ask me a dozen questions and talk about following one's own instincts. But many people who encounter ufos are overwhelmed. Then they interpret their own experience as being generally true.
Same goes with many who've had ndes. They experience something so intense and are overwhelmed. They lose the capacity to analyse the subject on a meta-level.
Nelson
Member
I've also answered many of the variety of questions you've asked me and provided evidence and references. But each of these are large and indepth subjects. About the New Testament being a psyop, Joseph Atwill's work is enlightening. And that too is a huge subject.
I have other things to do in the next while. I'm happy to follow up on the things we've been discussing. Thank you for your input and many excellent and thought-provoking points.
Till next time,
Nelson
I have other things to do in the next while. I'm happy to follow up on the things we've been discussing. Thank you for your input and many excellent and thought-provoking points.
Till next time,
Nelson
"Many" does not mean all. Are you aware of NDEs that the experiencer feels fully able to process?
And even with "abduction" experiences many people have worked these out themselves,even if it took time.
You are generalising NDEs,etc.
Do you know many people don't officially report these experiences?
You think If a researcher hasn't researched it,it can't be analysed?
What of those who are fully capable of explaining THEIR experiences. Do you just tell then to shut up and follow "the science"?
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Just a brief comment on this.
The new testament is a psy op but mythology,UFO "science" and the Vedas etc are not?
And what is your knowledge of the Quran?
You throw all abrahamic information away and expect me to think your being open minded,looking at data?
I enjoy talking with you,but let's get a bit more coherent and consistent here.
NDEs are considered a source of spiritual knowledge on the forum. But what of more everyday "psi" like dreams,visions,intuition,telepathy and imagination. Even the humble "thinking"! The humble intellect!
Why is it that its mainly NDEs used as a source for life after death proof? Why the emphasis on extreme events to the detriment of numerous other sources.
Intuition seems to be forgotten,and replaced by a rabbit hole of "follow the data". Seemingly also this data Has to be produced by establishment academics. (Is this not a deliberate conspiracy?)
Doesn't this undermine the entire premise of the efficacy of spiritual Psi?
If science acknowledges legitimate spiritual Psi,what of practioners who could chuckle,"your hundreds of years late to the party"! We already know and have practiced and refined our Psi! No labs,academics or statistics needed!
Comments?
Why is it that its mainly NDEs used as a source for life after death proof? Why the emphasis on extreme events to the detriment of numerous other sources.
Intuition seems to be forgotten,and replaced by a rabbit hole of "follow the data". Seemingly also this data Has to be produced by establishment academics. (Is this not a deliberate conspiracy?)
Doesn't this undermine the entire premise of the efficacy of spiritual Psi?
If science acknowledges legitimate spiritual Psi,what of practioners who could chuckle,"your hundreds of years late to the party"! We already know and have practiced and refined our Psi! No labs,academics or statistics needed!
Comments?
Wormwood
Member
If you dive into the world of Astral Travelers/OBE experiencers and/or some of the communities related to this topic you find a lot of genuine and knowledgeable people who share their experiences and write books about it etc. Im my eyes, these experiences, give us more data in terms of quality and quantity than NDEs do. Their experiences show variety, as do NDEs, but there are many commonalities to be found in their experiences amongst each others experiences and also of those of the NDErs. It seems that their experiences are more grounded and a better source of info since they occur more often for the individual and, if the experiencer is skilled or gifted, the experiences last much longer.
I highly highly recommend Jurgen Ziewe’s books. Some others of note are Jade Shaw, William Buhlman, Graham Nicholas Tom Cambpell etc. Overall they are pretty genuine people and I trust that their experiences are likely real.
You are right. There is a form of “NDE worship” amongst some of these spiritual message boards and communities. Many of these people or groups think that NDEs are the end all be all and they totally neglect the research and data on consciousness, astral travel, reincarnation, PSI, etc etc. And don’t even try to tell them that close encounter/abductee experiences are part of the puzzle if you really want to analyze these things. To them, it’s just NDEs.
Thank you! You have nicely expanded on the point I was making. I've seen the skeptiko podcasts with ziewe,and I've seen podcasts with those you have mentioned. And you are right I do see much more value in these more regular and frequent spiritual phenomenon.
I mean not everyone can have an NDE,but everybody can lucid dream or astral travel with practice.
The NDE is becoming a cliche and a grift. A drama show!
There is also the "imaginal realm" and manifestation to be very strongly looked at as well. Tbh,its all a kind of creative desire,creative art really.
It would be nice to have these kind of guests on,as well as the conspiracy stuff. But the obsession with third party study of NDEs,UFO grifts and AI nerds is mind numbing and really is just disinfo.
People have been practicing astral travel,remote viewing,manifestation forever,why not study them?
Appreciate the comments!
Wormwood
Member
Very Cool! I’m jealous. I’ve tried various techniques but to no avail. I used to lucid dream frequently as a child/teenager and would fly around, break things, and have sex with girls, all the time knowing that I was dreaming. Nowadays I sometimes become “semi-lucid.” In this state I sort of grasp (in the dream) that what’s happening is not “real” (using that word cautiously) but I can’t really take control and become fully aware and run with it. I usually just wake up. Or try to wake myself up by moving my face muscles. Which is ironically the last thing I want to do. I want to stay in the dream. But it’s as if my cognition and reasoning abilities arent all there. But it was lucid as hell as a child.
I have no idea if I ever visited any “astral realms” populated by real sentient people or other beings during these experiences or if they were always just a mental construct of my own. But I’m pretty convinced that those places exist and are visited by astral travelers
Lucid dreaming is so incredible. Puts today’s virtual reality helmets to shame.
That's a very important point! As children we could all do it! That shows its innate and natural. As folks get older sometimes other people discourage us,or folk start believing in material science...
With regard to lucid dreaming,initially you don't have to take control,just do little things,try to move something in the dream or talk in the dream.
I think an easier way is just daydream,that way you can control it. Practice makes it easier. Any creative thinking,art or sport will do the same.
I have sent visions and messages to my Wife,and vice versa and we have both received them! How's that for proof!
Chester Hunter
New
Brilliant... Thank You... you bring up the fact that some of us (I can't stand to use the all-inclusive universalizing "we"), and include me among them, cannot state for a fact if it is -
a.) "God" (if there even be such that meddles in the affairs of beings (humans included)) and that this "God" is wholly and only benevolent.
b.) if it is some (one or more, like a group of) "being(s)" - an individualized conscious sentient expression of being, that is meddling in the affairs of life on Earth and/or life some of us experience in extended reality or
c.) that there's nothing messing with us at all (and its all just our imagination).
From my personal experience, I place c.) at 1% chance (my lowest rating in the system I use to analyze matters such as this). But also, I make a.) 1%.
This means I operate with a strong assumption that b.) is going on.
And so, guess what that then leads me to choose as my primary operational protocol? I operate under the assumption I have 100% personal responsibility in every single thing I experience. Nothing "happens to me" where I do not play a role of responsibility in generating that experience. I am never a victim because of this operational protocol. I need no "savior" because of this operational protocol.
It is my opinion that if human beings chose to a.) come to this understanding that they - each, individually, are 100% personally responsible for every single thing they experience in their life - and note, thinking, speaking/writing and doing is included in ALL experience and then operate with this first and foremost at the center of every level of their being, their entire life experience would transform (as mine has) into an absolutely exhilarating wonderland of magic beyond words to describe.
Nelson
Member
What a fantastic post! I entirely agree. Thank you, Chester. And thanks again for organising the Jason Jorjani interview. One of the most thought-provoking episodes ever!
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Robbedigital
New
Nelson, do you believe there is a spirit realm that coexists with our mortal realm?
I ask because I think such a scenario would fit your 'ET manipulated NDEs' concept, but minus the 'ET'. I consider spirit realm inhabitants to be of a different category than ET. And I think regardless of their advancement, for ET to be responsible would necessitate an elaborate worldwide ET protocol wherein they're consistently interested-in, present-for, and dialed-into manipulation of not just some, but a large percentage of the Human passing-over experience. Would you agree that your concept assumes an elaborate management system?
Can you theorize on their intentions or the potential benefits? Like, what would they get out of it that they can only get from Humans and not off on their own?
If you've already answered these elsewhere feel free to point me toward it.
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Chester Hunter
New
On the heels of Jason Jorjani's latest Novella -
Chester Hunter
New
The wildest 87 pages you'll ever read. 