Jay Dyer, What’s the Endgame for Atheists? |352|

I'm not talking about trans or transitioning. Can you show me the studies that say that there are huge differences between male and female brains? The only ones I have seen have minute differences, if that, and are not conclusive, and there is the issue of neuroplasticity.
This is interesting because on the one hand, you've got people using brain differences to both support and deny the reality of transgenderism. It's also used support and deny this notion of "men are smarter".

I'm not making a claim either way, I just find it interesting how controversial some things are for different reasons, and how scientific data can be used and manipulated to fit a view.
 
I never said that. I said many of the arguments used by activists are based on feeling and rhetoric, not science.

Moreover, had you actually read up on Dr. Zucker, you'd see he was in no way "anti-trans". Quite the opposite. He was interested in actually helping trans people utilizing various methods that were more or less tailored to the individuals needs. It just so happened that he found that when children were given the time and space to figure out their identity on their own, with support, they often settled into their birth gender.

I didn't say he was anti-trans? I said there are those who are anti-trans who want to see his dismissal as a rejection of science just as others see him as a "bigot" who rejected new science in favor of his past position.

He also worked to address the co-morbidities that very often are associated with gender dysphoria, such as anxiety and depression. In fact, he found that in some cases, treating the co-morbid conditions actually relieved the feelings of gender dysphoria.

I'm all for this. As I said in my past post, I see recommending transitioning for children as the least-worst case only to be taken after other reasonable methods have not alleviated the feeling of being trapped in the wrong body.

Instead, society is hell bent on transitioning children based on what a child thinks. They want to fully immerse a child in trans culture instead of providing a supportive atmosphere that allows them to mature before making such drastic, life altering decisions.

It seems to me this describes a small minority of people? Even pro-child transitioning researchers note such a recommendation would apply in a small number of cases, at least from what I've read.

As I recall even ThinkProgress noted this, but I can double check.

I've said it before, I wouldn't allow my children to decide what to eat for dinner at 8 years old (since it would largely consist of cookies and ice cream) much less determine definitively what gender they are going to live as for the rest of their lives. Don't call CPS on me or anything, but I actually made my kids eat zucchini, and they hated it! I know, borderline child abuse. I should have made them banana splits instead.

It seems to me this is a caricature? I doubt many parents jump at the chance to put their kids through transitioning?

So what we understand as the emotional and cognitive stages of development that children go through are being ignored to push some kind of agenda. Which is odd, because no one has been able to answer me what "rights" transgender activists are fighting for. What rights don't they have? I'm genuinely confused by this. So what ARE they pushing for, and why?

It seems the rights associated with trans being recognized as a genuine medical reality is the primary concern?

Admittedly there does seem to be extreme groups who want to allow even pre-op persons into spaces meant for women, and even condemn lesbians who don't like "female penises". I would be against such things, as noted in a prior post I don't think the refusal to date trans persons is a form of bigotry.

I cannot help but wonder if this really does have something to do with normalizing sexuality in children; which is not even something children can fully understand.

I don't think anyone is saying even children who are going through transitioning should be having sex?

They do not have the cognitive capacity to understand the full implications of sex and gender. They think gender means dressing in pretty pink dresses and playing with barbies, when the truth is there is far more to gender than mere superficialities.

Some may think this but it's not clear this applies to all the cases of children insisting they are in the wrong body. I've come to lean toward the side that says waiting out youthful gender dysphoria is the recommended course, though on reading about the debate I think it is possible that sometimes in rare cases it might be right to recommend earlier transitioning.

This is what I mean by the notion that we live in a society that worships scientism but is very unscientific. It's not about truth, facts or following the data. It's all about what sounds nice and feels good.

The data so far seems to indicate there are, in at least some cases, physical differences where the brain of a trans matches the brain of the gender they insist they are?

Though I would agree that we shouldn't rush to label every case of gender dysphoria as trans.
 
You know, I never thought of it like that.

Though I'd argue it's a great deal of radical left-wing professors and media figures setting them up. They fill them with a particularly hateful ideology (yes, hateful. You've got kids running around punching "Nazis" getting people fired for "wrongthink", lighting things on fire because they disagree with the outcome of an election, shutting down college campuses for non-existent racism, etc.) and quite literally goad them into bad behavior. And that's not to say that I think ALL Millenials are like this. I know a great deal of them are not. Sadly, a lot of them are afraid of speaking up.

A lot of these SJW's and the like don't present arguments, they use threats and insults to shut people down. And unfortunately, it's been quite effective at preventing a lot of other Millenials from speaking their minds.
You are talking about such a tiny number of people. Both my girls went to an art high school and I can think of one person among the tons of girls that we knew that is even anything at all like what you describe. And everyone of these kids went to college. I can't imagine SJWism is very prevalent among non-college kids which is the vast majority. Just not sure if you are talking from experience (And what would that be? Maybe you are a professor at a liberal arts college?)
 
I'm not talking about trans or transitioning. Can you show me the studies that say that there are huge differences between male and female brains? The only ones I have seen have minute differences, if that, and are not conclusive, and there is the issue of neuroplasticity.

That article isn't about transitioning though? It's about differences between male and female brains.
 
You know, I had no idea that NY magazine was "conservative". While I understand and agre that bias may be at play when a certain viewpoint is extended, sometimes we get way too hung up on what is "liberal" and what is "conservative".

If the ideas are sound and backed up by good evidence, I don't care if it's a publication by the KKK.
(I would just be very careful about verifying their claims).

It's a logical fallacy to a priori dismiss an opinion because you don't like the person or the group they represent.

But I didn't dismiss the article, I just noted that in the case of the dismissal there were different views on why it happened?
 
Yet, according to most US House of Representatives members, kids are smart enough to be put behind bars for 15 (or more) years if they are caught sexting: look here and here.

Some people's belief in the asexuality of children is so strong that they are more than willing to devastate the lives of actual kids to protect the intellectual projection of the Innocent Child.
There's a distinct difference between a 15 year old and an 8 year old, and a 15 year old and an 18 year old.

Children can understand right from wrong pretty early on. The vast majority of 15 year olds (barring some kind of developmental delay) understands that sexually abusing a small child is wrong. However, if they are "sexting" cohorts, meaning other kids within a reasonable age range of themselves (say, 14-17), then yeah, that's bullshit.

But let's not pretend like a 15 year old sexting a 40 year old isn't messed up. The 40 year old is (supposedly) more mature in a myriad of ways than the 15 year old. This has been very well documented and elucidated within the last century of psychological research.
 
That article isn't about transitioning though? It's about differences between male and female brains.

Sorry, what article? I was asking about studies that showed huge differences between male and female brains. Sheesh, I said above it wasn't about trans, FFS, people.

Edit: Oh I see. A lot of discussion has taken place since I last posted. Need to catch up.
 
Sorry, what article? I was asking about studies that showed huge differences between male and female brains. Sheesh, I said above it wasn't about trans, FFS, people.

I think I'm just confused by why you think the article I mentioned with links to studies isn't what you wanted?

I'm happy to admit my reading of that or any other article is wrong, but I honestly am not sure what your criticism is?
 
Sorry, Vault, but you're seriously wrong here: SJW-ism is not a logical continuation of Libertarian Left path of 1960s - 70s, but its authoritarian distortion and effective betrayal of the ideals and goals of that era. It is also as hostile to free love as it is to free speech.

Read this old British Libertarian Left activist, who was inspired by the 1960s, was the part of the Left movement in 1970s and early 1980s, then gave up when Thatcher crushed the Left cause in the UK. He returned to the Left movement in the 21st century... and was horrified and disgusted when he saw its current condition: look here, here, here and here.
Ok, so I looked through your links, and I agree, the old left isn't really the same as the new left.

I fully understand that there's a difference between classical liberals and cultural Marxists. It's the cultural Marxist responsible for a lot of what we see happening on college campuses today. It's leftists that adopted a postmodernist view about reality (or the lack thereof) with some nice totalitarianism thrown in there for good measure.

There are plenty of liberals in the US today that are just as disturbed by what passes as the supposed left as conservatives are.
 
You are talking about such a tiny number of people. Both my girls went to an art high school and I can think of one person among the tons of girls that we knew that is even anything at all like what you describe. And everyone of these kids went to college. I can't imagine SJWism is very prevalent among non-college kids which is the vast majority. Just not sure if you are talking from experience (And what would that be? Maybe you are a professor at a liberal arts college?)
Hence why I said most Millenials are not SJW's.

I'm not sure why you keep pushing back so hard on this. I wasn't calling you or your kids SJW's but you keep responding like I'm personally insulting you.

But to act like these people don't have a great deal of influence is just beyond naive.

You don't need to be a professor at a liberal arts college to see this. It's everywhere. Harvard, Yale, Missou (hardly a "liberal arts" college), even Texas A&M. And it's heavily influencing politics in the U.K. and Canada. Not as much in the US, yet.
 
In fact, there are also quite a lot of scientific research showing that sexual relationships between children and adults can be both fully consensual and completely harmless. But it is, quite predictably, is met with burning moral outrage and emotional overdose any time it is presented... at least, since the reactionary outburst of the 1980s. Before that, it was entirely thinkable to people, including many scientists and scholars, that children are fully and actively sexual, and may agree to sexual plays with adults. They may even initiate them.

It was also quite obvious to nearly all non-Western(ised) cultures. Our current hysterical denial of poisitive intergenerational sexuality is a weird exception in a history of mankind, not a "norm" of any kind.
I saw your post on this in another thread, and I'll just go with "agree to disagree" here.

I think you're way off base here. The research into child development and the effects of sexual abuse on children are very clear. There's just no way you're going to convince me differently here. And if that means I'm biased, then I guess I'm biased.
 
In fact, there are also quite a lot of scientific research showing that sexual relationships between children and adults can be both fully consensual and completely harmless. But it is, quite predictably, is met with burning moral outrage and emotional overdose any time it is presented... at least, since the reactionary outburst of the 1980s. Before that, it was entirely thinkable to people, including many scientists and scholars, that children are fully and actively sexual, and may agree to sexual plays with adults. They may even initiate them.

It was also quite obvious to nearly all non-Western(ised) cultures. Our current hysterical denial of poisitive intergenerational sexuality is a weird exception in a history of mankind, not a "norm" of any kind.

How can children consent to sex before even hitting puberty?
 
It seems to me this is a caricature? I doubt many parents jump at the chance to put their kids through transitioning?

Yes, hyperbole to make a point.

I agree that most parents aren't chomping at the bit to transition their children. But there was new legislation just passed in Ontario that gave their CPS the right to remove children from parents who refuse to recognize transgenderism. Now, I'm not sure of the specifics of the law, but wow, on the surface that sounds a little crazy. And if I remember right, in the U.K., your child can be taken from you if you don't agree with transition. Again, I don't know the specifics, but just the fact that the government can take your kids away because they don't like your parenting (barring abuse) is just crazy.
 
Oh shit, I forgot I was supposed to write a reply to Vortex about sex with children. I don't log onto here that much anymore, and today is an anomaly, but have fun, guys, I guess.
 
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