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Left hand path from my research has more to do with making yourself a "God" and living by your own moral codes and taking your power back. I think "dark" stuff gets intertwined but doesn't it penetrate every institution? Christianity and Islam has murdered, rape millions in the name of God
pls ask John Brisson... he was my source... and repost if possible.
sure... for example:Alex, could you please define the three levels, as in your stated preference for level 3 dialog. Merci!
If consciousness is beyond space and time wouldn't that leave NDE to be produced by brain chemicals since the proceeds of dying is still in this realm? Where do we draw the line?sure... for example:
Level one: Are we biological robots in a meaningless universe? Let's deconstruct Dean Radin's Six Sigma result on presentiment in an attempt to answer the question.
Level two: Why are seemingly intelligent and fair-minded scientists unable to deal with the above result... even when he bends over backwards to play by their rules. Why do they distort, misinform and "intentionally deceive" (remembering Rupert Sheldrake's comment about Richard Wiseman)? Is there a hidden agenda?
Level three: What are the implications of Dean Radin's presentiment experiment? It seems to point to an extended Consciousness that is outside of our space-time. This would seem to undermine some fundamental assumptions scientists made about "reality "and our ability to measure it.
Many thanks, Alex. Are you familiar with panentheism? A good discussion is in Beyond Physicalism, a follow on to the masterful book Irreducuble Mind by the gang at the center of NDE research at the U of VA.sure... for example:
Level one: Are we biological robots in a meaningless universe? Let's deconstruct Dean Radin's Six Sigma result on presentiment in an attempt to answer the question.
Level two: Why are seemingly intelligent and fair-minded scientists unable to deal with the above result... even when he bends over backwards to play by their rules. Why do they distort, misinform and "intentionally deceive" (remembering Rupert Sheldrake's comment about Richard Wiseman)? Is there a hidden agenda?
Level three: What are the implications of Dean Radin's presentiment experiment? It seems to point to an extended Consciousness that is outside of our space-time. This would seem to undermine some fundamental assumptions scientists made about "reality "and our ability to measure it.
thx Skep... I've always felt similarly. I think back about all the great people I've meet thru skeptiko... so cool... but just as yr saying some folks do move on... and that's gotta be ok.Alex, I’ve listened to every one of your podcasts. If people are leaving, then that’s OK. We all merge and diverge as we follow our own road.
I get yr point. I've tried to open myself up to stretching out to longer format when it feels right... and when guests are willing.PS... the long format shows are the way to go if your guests are up for it. It doesn’t seem like, in most podcasts, the meat of what people want to hear and think about comes out right always. A collaborative critical though processes has to be allowed to establish, and that usually doesn’t happen until hour 2. Hour 1 always tends to be just framing the discussion and getting the disclaimers out of the way. This seems to be true for any real discussion podcast format. It’s why network programming is so unsatisfying in many ways. The problem still exists today in the overly processed, legacy media folks trying their hand at podcasts. IMHO they are coming up short compared to the independent shows like yours that don’t answer to marketing and cancel culture type controls.
how does this jive w/ yr personal investigation of the Toward case?I contacted Debbie Nathan and asked her if a dedication page mentioning James Toward had been removed from the 2nd edition of the book. Here’s her reply:
‘Indeed, Mike Snedeker and I did include the James Toward in our 1995 (original edition) list of the falsely accused.
‘The material in Cheit doesn't address the issues I've since uncovered with that case. I don't want to go into them publicly because the records I got were given to me confidentially. Suffice to say that there is strong evidence that Toward was sexually exploiting and abusing older children (almost all older teenagers though some younger). These victims were not students at the preschool. The full story is actually fascinating--I hope to be able to do that eventually. Some of this was mentioned in contemporaneous news accounts from Stuart Beach. You could find them in the local newspaper.'
‘PS: Yes, the 1995 edition (Basic Books) had a dedication page and we removed it in 2001 for the IUniverse edition because almost everyone by then was out of prison. (As I recall, the dedication page was confined to everyone still incarcerated.)’
@Mishelle - two things... regarding the Ken Wilber book, One Taste... though you get a sense of the human being, Ken Wilber (aka as the "Bald Ego" by some), the gold you can mine is found in the specific segments where he addresses consciousness, self, the Absolute, etc... matters related to the deepest esoteric, philosophical explorations one might probe in contemplative exploratory processes - meditation, contemplative "prayer" etc.
The other book I mentioned is a "Pro-Left Hand Path" POV and how I approached the book was as an investigator attempting to learn and maybe understand why someone might be attracted to any of the forms of Left Hand Path practice. The book does not go all the way. What is all the way? What I call Left and Down... which means - the dark "Satanic" practices that are purported to exists and are directly targeted by Brisson and dicsussed in this thread. The benefit in exploring this material is that one can get a better clue into the mindset of folks who "lean Left Hand Path" and thus are ripe to be more successfully recruited into the the really dark stuff. This is not a faint warning I am sharing.
I will work on listing what I would have to include in my current top five as a few books this last year have emerged as taking the spot of previous place holders - Diana Pasulka's American Cosmic is a candidate for me.
I started reading Lords of the Left-Hand Path, interesting, I appreciate the recommendation. This is definitely not something I’d have chosen otherwise. Still, lots to learn from it, as you say, as a philosophical exploration. I’m glad for the overview into eastern traditions and already bored by the author. It seems so odd to me when a man can explore the world, literally and intellectually, and still be so damn dull. Now there’s a worldly mystery! :)
how does this jive w/ yr personal investigation of the Toward case?