Chester Hunter
New
And right on cue to the point I made here is the latest INCENDIARY IDEAS episode (released this morning) that addresses this very issue -
Mark Gober, Upside Down UFO/ET |567|
- Thread starter Alex
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And right on cue to the point I made here is the latest INCENDIARY IDEAS episode (released this morning) that addresses this very issue -
J Randall Murphy
New
Hope you don't mind if I jump into this one. I find it really interesting.
Interesting question. I would say that the answer depends on how we define the parameters. If we're looking at it from the perspective of moral relativism, then the answer would be "No". However if we look at it from the perspective of Evil as an objective stimulus that we as humans can sense, then the answer is most probably "Yes". This latter perspective is less popular. But I think there is something to it.
I think that "gooder" can apply in the same way as a level of luminosity. As an analogy, if darkness is evil and light is good, we can imagine two opposing conditions ( darkness and light ) each defined by the complete absence of the other, resulting in the hypothetical possibility of a situation consisting of 100% good or 100% evil.
However. most situations in our experience aren't all #000000 or all #FFFFFF ( the hex values for pure black and pure white ). They're some combination where there is room to get brighter or darker, better or worse.
I don't shy away from the word "evil". If you can sense it, then you know it's something that requires attention. However I would say that the phrase "use with caution" is appropriate.
Nothing wrong with being an optimist on the side of light.
Q. Where is the magic line?
A. In your heart.
It might not always be comfortable, but it's a conversation worth having.
On making the calls, you are quite correct. However that doesn't mean we don't have a responsibility to help people understand the questions and become more aware of the consequences of their decisions. It's not an easy thing, and your reservations indicate a level of wisdom not possessed by those who tend to make hasty moral judgements.
An oft quoted source of cultural illustration on this subject ...
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Chester Hunter
New
J. Randall Murphy: Hope you don't mind if I jump into this one. I find it really interesting.
Great responses to each and 'liking' the post was not enough.
Just to tie in my commentary over in the other thread, what I think is critical when it comes to these singularity level technologies rapidly being achieved is that if we don't take responsibility (as a global community) in setting limits to what of these technologies is pursued and how developments of these technologies are agreed to be used, the unscrupulous (whether WEF types or cadres of billionaires that emulate psychopathy and work together such that a Brave New World end game is possible), then the unscrupulous will have a great potential to be setting those limits (even if they are NONE) and the nation or nations that facilitate and/or defend these advancements will also have the advantage to use them to dominate the world. THAT is, to me, the concern of concerns.
What I see as the current dynamic is "one group" is pushing for "globalization" and the masses are pushing against it. The third alternative is missing and I am concerned we are shirking responsibility in that regard. And we know the world will be handed to our children which is the saddest thing of all, speaking for myself, but I suspect you and many here feel the same for all our kids.
Great responses to each and 'liking' the post was not enough.
Just to tie in my commentary over in the other thread, what I think is critical when it comes to these singularity level technologies rapidly being achieved is that if we don't take responsibility (as a global community) in setting limits to what of these technologies is pursued and how developments of these technologies are agreed to be used, the unscrupulous (whether WEF types or cadres of billionaires that emulate psychopathy and work together such that a Brave New World end game is possible), then the unscrupulous will have a great potential to be setting those limits (even if they are NONE) and the nation or nations that facilitate and/or defend these advancements will also have the advantage to use them to dominate the world. THAT is, to me, the concern of concerns.
What I see as the current dynamic is "one group" is pushing for "globalization" and the masses are pushing against it. The third alternative is missing and I am concerned we are shirking responsibility in that regard. And we know the world will be handed to our children which is the saddest thing of all, speaking for myself, but I suspect you and many here feel the same for all our kids.
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J Randall Murphy
New
Absolutely. I imagine that one candidate for a "third alternative" is the idea that global unity and harmony can be a good thing. I'm reminded of the song Imagine and Star Trek's depiction of a unified Earth where we've survived our technological adolescence, matured past the need to feed greed, and are instead focused on helping one another and ourselves improve. The question is, where did it all go wrong?
What I'm constantly reminded of is that wherever there is a high potential for good, there is also a high potential for evil, and that forms of power are lenses through which that potential is focused. If you're sensitive to it, the rallies are one place you can literally feel it, and like in Star Wars, there is always a struggle for balance. Being in a rally that pushes back against the oppression of authoritarianism puts one squarely onto the battlefield.
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Brother Timothy
Member
At the beginning of the pandemic, I heard a fairly well know spiritual teacher basically guilting people into having the jab. "If you don't do that, your adding to their fear."
Alex
Administrator
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![[[p]]](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7 "Wink [[p]]")
Alex
Administrator
Who was it?
Chester Hunter
New
Just in time (one day after) I posted that which I am quoting, the Professor (Jason Jorjani) released a podcast which covers the matter in a detailed way.
Brother Timothy
Member
Miranda MacPherson - sometimes known as "Satsang Barbie".
Chester Hunter
New
Here's an example of why the word "evil" is not a word I use. Where's the magic line? Wherever anyone wants to draw it.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/09/msnbc-guest-trump-voters-war-people-folks-evil-video/
Skepter
New
J Randall, I quite simply, absolutely, loved your thoughts. Thanks for jumping in!
Hurmanetar
New
I think it is still a very useful word even if thrown around and misused.
What do you think is up with the over the top rhetoric like this? Just trying to energize their base or is it pre-scripting for some kind of false flag to be blamed on the MAGAts?
Silence
Member
Any interest in being at all objective here Hurm, or are we just focused on the over the top rhetoric from the left side of the aisle? It isn't a left or right thing. Both sides are using the same tactics.
Skepter
New
Well, I just finished the book. I bought it Wednesday and finished it last night. Call me a dedicated reader of Gober ;)
I realize why I have read every one of Gober’s books and enjoyed his brief podcast summary. I followed a similar (not precisely the same) path he did, albeit with less intensity and over a longer timeline. My journey started in 2006-2007 and transformed me from a consumer of education and academic belief systems to that of a seeker and self directed student of consciousness, philosophy and first principle discovery.
I really appreciate Gober’s spectrum of emotion and positions as he managed his discovery. In this last book, I liked his last chapter the most. Good questions, good insights. All incredibly hard to pin down, but important to consider. While I may not be the central target audience, I cheer him on and others like him, happily and loudly. I support his journey as it is our joirney.
Also - I always find myself fascinated and impressed with the insights, questions and concepts that many on this forum share. And Alex, thank you again for standing out, often alone, and creating your podcast way back when. I’m incredibly thankful I found it in the early days. It’s been a big part of my own discovery process. An aside… I still marvel at the directed “hit” Skeptiko endured from the “unbeliever” movement in the “oughts” …the one star reviews, the hate spewed on Google search engines, reviews and online elsewhere. Interesting how that just sort of died out as dramatically as it appeared. It was endured and real questions and observations have a place to ask their own questions; unmolested, unattached, and unafraid.
Rambling on, I return to the last chapter. Great questions about how we interact with phenomena and what we may be in control of, ourselves, in how we react and how we establish our own personal narrative and spiritual position. Some of what we encounter may be well out of our immediate control but bigger levers of self determination may be in our control, through our own psychic positioning and established sense of determination. Perhaps I am projecting and reading into that more than was intended. But none the less, I take the position we are in charge of not only ourselves but our community through a shared, collective consciousness.
Do we sometimes fly too close to the sun (thanks Alex) in this journey? Yeah, probably, sometimes. For sure though - No adventure worth taking is ever without risk and threat. How we manage the threat and how we keep our heading aligned with our compass mitigates the bad and augments the chance of a successful journey.
I realize why I have read every one of Gober’s books and enjoyed his brief podcast summary. I followed a similar (not precisely the same) path he did, albeit with less intensity and over a longer timeline. My journey started in 2006-2007 and transformed me from a consumer of education and academic belief systems to that of a seeker and self directed student of consciousness, philosophy and first principle discovery.
I really appreciate Gober’s spectrum of emotion and positions as he managed his discovery. In this last book, I liked his last chapter the most. Good questions, good insights. All incredibly hard to pin down, but important to consider. While I may not be the central target audience, I cheer him on and others like him, happily and loudly. I support his journey as it is our joirney.
Also - I always find myself fascinated and impressed with the insights, questions and concepts that many on this forum share. And Alex, thank you again for standing out, often alone, and creating your podcast way back when. I’m incredibly thankful I found it in the early days. It’s been a big part of my own discovery process. An aside… I still marvel at the directed “hit” Skeptiko endured from the “unbeliever” movement in the “oughts” …the one star reviews, the hate spewed on Google search engines, reviews and online elsewhere. Interesting how that just sort of died out as dramatically as it appeared. It was endured and real questions and observations have a place to ask their own questions; unmolested, unattached, and unafraid.
Rambling on, I return to the last chapter. Great questions about how we interact with phenomena and what we may be in control of, ourselves, in how we react and how we establish our own personal narrative and spiritual position. Some of what we encounter may be well out of our immediate control but bigger levers of self determination may be in our control, through our own psychic positioning and established sense of determination. Perhaps I am projecting and reading into that more than was intended. But none the less, I take the position we are in charge of not only ourselves but our community through a shared, collective consciousness.
Do we sometimes fly too close to the sun (thanks Alex) in this journey? Yeah, probably, sometimes. For sure though - No adventure worth taking is ever without risk and threat. How we manage the threat and how we keep our heading aligned with our compass mitigates the bad and augments the chance of a successful journey.
Skepter
New
Good question.
At some point, even in taking a “point observation” of a phenomena that may lie within a range and spectrum, the area in question may be clearly “judged” or observed to be within another range, or spectrum, of behavior or intentional quality. Such as Evil or Good.
For example, the WOKE revolution. Seems to me, there is a link here to a host of influence that typically emanates from the “power, control, revenge, spite, hate, manipulation, mutilation and domination” fields of emotion and psychic intentions. Mascaraing in sheep clothing. Whereas, the MAGA movements, seem to me, to be a reactive, disorganized panic response that also has intrusion points to allow influences to the collective consciousness from places of: Fear, anger, panic, sorrow, isolation, self-soothing fantasy, and self-indulgence. Mascaraing in wolve’s clothing. Both groups have weak points where “evil” consciousness infiltrates. However. In my judgment, I believe the power of “Evil” with a big E has manifested more deeply and generates far more of it’s identity through WOKE. Though both sides are prone to the takeover. Both stage characterizations have a light and shadow side. Evil shows it does need to be considered, and it does matter (figuratively and within the physical).
Silence
Member
Can you expand on your conclusion here? Curious what you base this evaluation on.
Alex
Administrator
Agreed. so awesome to hear from someone who can think and feel at the same time
Haha thanks for being around so long... and for remembering.
You know it's funny because I've noticed a second "hit" on skeptiko that's happened during the last few years. I didn't really tune into it until rob mcGregor went off on me about the pizzagate thing in a recent episode. I remember asking him in an email exchange after the interview where he got his ideas regarding my position on pizzagate since I had made them clear a bunch of times including in my book why evil matters. moreover, it seemed especially strange since, as I pointed out again and again, pizzagate is ultimately a right-wing conspiracy (i.e. political hit job on hillary).
Anyway, after this exchange with rob I started counting all the people who seem to be super agitated with me over pizzagate. this includes folks like jeffrey mishlove, rick archer, and others.
No big deal... just kind of funny and strange... one more reason to play the game but not let the game play you
excellent!!! and really well said. I think this is exactly what mark was reaching for and certainly what I was reaching for... you just said it better
Hurmanetar
New
I’m being objective. You’re pretending to be.
Chester Hunter
New
I can tell I missed something (thanks to the ignore list) that I am likely glad I missed. Again, THANK YOU to the ignore list!!!
Silence
Member
No, you aren't Hurm. Objective isn't a word I would use to describe you at all. You spend much too much time declaring the state of things to be objective. Perhaps better put: You're no more objective than I am. ;)