Matt Whitman, On the Gist of Josephus |501|

#21
I get your point... well said... I totally agree.

to yr point :)

as you know, I've been digging into the roman thing a lot. I've discovered that they had a very different view of slavery. in many ways they were quite progressive. first off, it didn't have anything to do with race or stuff like that. secondly it was very fluid. tons of people worked their way out of slavery and became full roman citizens.
This is what distinguishes their form of slavery from European forms: the Spanish & English, for instance, practiced what has been called 'chattel slavery.' You were property, a thing that was bought & sold. Black slaves were especially vulnerable to this b/c of appearance differences that led to racial approaches to aid the control of them & justify such a vicious institution (innately inferior, sexually promiscuous, etc.). My wife & I have slave tattoos on our inner thighs from previous lives that attest to the measures that were used to identify 'property' in a permanent way.
 
#22
I really did enjoy this episode, despite my disdain of Christianity. To me, all religions, whether they call themselves "spiritual" or not, are like a spider's web. There is certainly a place for spiders in this world, and also a place for the flies that need to crash into them. Certainly, there is also a place for webs. My "Christ consciousness," for lack of a better description of true spiritual states co-opped by all religions, tells me to love both, spiders and flies. Also, to appreciate the interaction between spiders and flies.

I like Whitman's all out honesty regarding doubt and his return to "eyes wide open" faith. I really enjoyed his honesty regarding spiritual breakdown. Nevertheless, he is turning back to the same web of nonsense that he was originally involved in before he stepped down from being a pastor.

Who cares if Josephus was a propaganda guy or not? Obviously, beyond a shadow of a doubt "in the valley of death," Christianity, and every other mass belief system, is an object of propaganda itself. Splitting hairs about whether or not the origins had anything to do with all the stooges and shills who assisted in the system is like having to taste test shit after you have already smelled it!
 
#23
This is what distinguishes their form of slavery from European forms: the Spanish & English, for instance, practiced what has been called 'chattel slavery.' You were property, a thing that was bought & sold. Black slaves were especially vulnerable to this b/c of appearance differences that led to racial approaches to aid the control of them & justify such a vicious institution (innately inferior, sexually promiscuous, etc.). My wife & I have slave tattoos on our inner thighs from previous lives that attest to the measures that were used to identify 'property' in a permanent way.
The most powerful kind of slavery convinces the slaves that they are free, and everywhere else is tyranny.
 
#24
I really did enjoy this episode, despite my disdain of Christianity. To me, all religions, whether they call themselves "spiritual" or not, are like a spider's web. There is certainly a place for spiders in this world, and also a place for the flies that need to crash into them. Certainly, there is also a place for webs. My "Christ consciousness," for lack of a better description of true spiritual states co-opped by all religions, tells me to love both, spiders and flies. Also, to appreciate the interaction between spiders and flies.

I like Whitman's all out honesty regarding doubt and his return to "eyes wide open" faith. I really enjoyed his honesty regarding spiritual breakdown. Nevertheless, he is turning back to the same web of nonsense that he was originally involved in before he stepped down from being a pastor.

Who cares if Josephus was a propaganda guy or not? Obviously, beyond a shadow of a doubt "in the valley of death," Christianity, and every other mass belief system, is an object of propaganda itself. Splitting hairs about whether or not the origins had anything to do with all the stooges and shills who assisted in the system is like having to taste test shit after you have already smelled it!
I tried to finish the interview w/ Matt, but I, too, found little interest in the discussion. Christianity provides too many opportunities to live off the psychop that was started so long ago. Easy answers for unthinking people who likely don't care to examine their family's, associates', friends' 'faith' in any detail: the epitome of the extrovert. What is scary, as Matt said, is the fact that so many just rely on the 'wisdom of the masses.'
 
#25
I tried to finish the interview w/ Matt, but I, too, found little interest in the discussion. Christianity provides too many opportunities to live off the psychop that was started so long ago. Easy answers for unthinking people who likely don't care to examine their family's, associates', friends' 'faith' in any detail: the epitome of the extrovert. What is scary, as Matt said, is the fact that so many just rely on the 'wisdom of the masses.'
I agree, my friend. Religion vs. Science is no different than Republican vs. Democrat, to me. Also, I get a little bit of puke in my throat every time I see one of these "by the book" religious people say stupid things like, "Let's hash it out! I enjoy this! I am all about finding the truth!"

However, at bottom, they are not willing to get out of their book and actually think. For me, Christianity isn't even a spiders web. It is that dirty piece of sticky tape hanging down from the ceiling of an all too humid laundromat, that should have been thrown away last month.
 
#26
I tried to finish the interview w/ Matt, but I, too, found little interest in the discussion. Christianity provides too many opportunities to live off the psychop that was started so long ago. Easy answers for unthinking people who likely don't care to examine their family's, associates', friends' 'faith' in any detail: the epitome of the extrovert. What is scary, as Matt said, is the fact that so many just rely on the 'wisdom of the masses.'
Reading your response I just imagined this:

Every religion is a water well (water being god-spirit) and for some reason humans always think they found the only well with the Real water. It’s like we think “that guy thinks differently than I do so he must not be drinking Real water”.
And at that Exact point, when a well establishes exclusivity, is when governments notice their opportunity to get in on the fun.

I think this is part of what Alex is pointing out at when he insists Everyone is living rich spiritual lives.
 
#27
digging into the roman thing a lot. I've discovered that they had a very different view of slavery. in many ways they were quite progressive. first off, it didn't have anything to do with race or stuff like that. secondly it was very fluid. tons of people worked their way out of slavery and became full roman citizens.
The most powerful kind of slavery convinces the slaves that they are free, and everywhere else is tyranny.
this a version of Nietzsche's warning to 'be careful who you pick as an enemy b/c this is who you will become most like'? The Absolute created everything, so evil is a bastard, but he's the Supreme's evil, so that makes him okay, in a twisted sort of Supreme Self-esteem way.
Listening To Theories Of Everything w Curt Jaimungal Ep.61 Part II of Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke.

At 2:07:00 Kastrup ".... because, to control the shadow you need to grant it the right to exist and to be there, and only then can you police it."
(This quote was at the end of a response which started at 1:58:50).
 
#28
Reading your response I just imagined this:

Every religion is a water well (water being god-spirit) and for some reason humans always think they found the only well with the Real water. It’s like we think “that guy thinks differently than I do so he must not be drinking Real water”.
And at that Exact point, when a well establishes exclusivity, is when governments notice their opportunity to get in on the fun.

I think this is part of what Alex is pointing out at when he insists Everyone is living rich spiritual lives.
I just finished emailing back & forth w/ this materalist/brain-function-alone-is-the-mind young man. He made a good point that 1920s physicists were not exactly unified about mind as fundamental & not many made much of it, but he never responded to my references to the decades of near-death experience research or the thousands of verified rebirth cases from children, just to mention two sources I emailed him. He's definitely into the promise that science will one day fully understand the brain/nervous system & he's not about to drink from any other well.
 
#29
Listening To Theories Of Everything w Curt Jaimungal Ep.61 Part II of Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke.

At 2:07:00 Kastrup ".... because, to control the shadow you need to grant it the right to exist and to be there, and only then can you police it."
(This quote was at the end of a response which started at 1:58:50).
I like the way that you weave these thoughts together. Personally, I am all about the ubiquitous shadow of the night. For me, the sun is obtrusive and a nuisance; a most jealous star at that. Give me my many stars and the ever changing mood of the moon. That is happiness to me. Daytime is that fluorescent lamp, that sun, littered with every kind of mosquito, human or otherwise. If I must be awake during the day, then let it rain continuously. I want to see fifteen Richie From Boston's bitching about how people are using Doppler Radars to control the weather and Chemtrails to block out the sun.
 
#30
I just finished emailing back & forth w/ this materalist/brain-function-alone-is-the-mind young man. He made a good point that 1920s physicists were not exactly unified about mind as fundamental & not many made much of it, but he never responded to my references to the decades of near-death experience research or the thousands of verified rebirth cases from children, just to mention two sources I emailed him. He's definitely into the promise that science will one day fully understand the brain/nervous system & he's not about to drink from any other well.
This is a good point. I think this type of "science will figure it out" mindset is no different than the mindset that can't get its head out of this or that Bible. It is comforting to live life believing somebody will figure it out, albeit "science" or "the church." I know, I know, a lot of these church idiots try to tell us that they are "not religious," but they are spiritual. I might be playing pogo stick on a dead horse with this one, but seriously, Christians, or whatever people who have an off the shelf belief system, fuck you for not actually thinking! It sounds harsh, but I am tired of real thinkers being expected to take any of you seriously. Also, you "science will figure it out" atheist jack asses......YOU ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!
 
#31
This is a good point. I think this type of "science will figure it out" mindset is no different than the mindset that can't get its head out of this or that Bible. It is comforting to live life believing somebody will figure it out, albeit "science" or "the church." I know, I know, a lot of these church idiots try to tell us that they are "not religious," but they are spiritual. I might be playing pogo stick on a dead horse with this one, but seriously, Christians, or whatever people who have an off the shelf belief system, fuck you for not actually thinking! It sounds harsh, but I am tired of real thinkers being expected to take any of you seriously. Also, you "science will figure it out" atheist jack asses......YOU ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!
Maybe you heard finally yoga practice is legal in schools, but you still can't say "Namaste" in Alabama. There were some other weird directives included. A person who commented on the story in HuffPost mentioned "Jesus Camp" documentary, which I will watch tonight. My brother was molested in summer church camp outside of Abilene, TX. He never wanted to go back to camp after that. I had a pastor start stroking my thigh that same summer while I was in the swimming pool, so even though he never would tell why he didn't want to go anymore (we had attended two previous camps w/o incident), I can be pretty certain it wasn't the ugly girls. There was some other weird stuff going that year that I won't bore you w/, but the trailers make it out as an introduction to the Christian brainwashing of children. I had read about some biology teachers in the south complaining that their students would start crying when they announced that the next unit would be about evolution theory. Bet they'd been to some form of Jesus camp in their churches at least.
 
#32
Maybe you heard finally yoga practice is legal in schools, but you still can't say "Namaste" in Alabama. There were some other weird directives included. A person who commented on the story in HuffPost mentioned "Jesus Camp" documentary, which I will watch tonight. My brother was molested in summer church camp outside of Abilene, TX. He never wanted to go back to camp after that. I had a pastor start stroking my thigh that same summer while I was in the swimming pool, so even though he never would tell why he didn't want to go anymore (we had attended two previous camps w/o incident), I can be pretty certain it wasn't the ugly girls. There was some other weird stuff going that year that I won't bore you w/, but the trailers make it out as an introduction to the Christian brainwashing of children. I had read about some biology teachers in the south complaining that their students would start crying when they announced that the next unit would be about evolution theory. Bet they'd been to some form of Jesus camp in their churches at least.
I think that it is important for people to read your experience in its entirety, so I quoted all of it. I am not speaking from the outside, as mentioned before, I grew up in an extremely Christian family. Fundamentally, I think it is a terrible excuse system for people to do crass, deplorable acts to each other; - under the guise of, "We are all sinners, but as long as you believe this, along with Jesus died for your sins, then you are OK to do whatever you want.....as long as you feel like a guilty piece of garbage and repent for a moment or two."

How is this kind of belief system any different than Aleister Crowley's: "Do what that wilt shall be the whole of the law"? It is the same exact Christian behavior without the moral imperative to repent. What is repentance? I think it is a cycle of returning to the same type of morally depraved, power hungry people who feed off of guilty energy. In other words, leaders in the Church. To me, Crowley's belief system is no more than him asserting leadership in the Christian belief system without climbing the ladder.

This is one of the reasons why Matt Whitman's approach is deplorable to me. It isn't necessary to know the scholastic origin of all the bullshit in the bible to see, at face value, that Christianity is a fucked up religion. This is why I use the metaphor of a spiders web. These type of people try to divert you from the basic questions regarding the belief system into inconsequential, historical details that can neither be proved or disproved.

When do they fall apart? Simply ask them: How does it make any sense that God needed to impregnate a married woman, who son was then murdered by all of you sinners? How does it make any sense, whatsoever at all, that you, a sinner and partaker of shit behavior, believing this has happened gives you salvation? Somebody, please, tell me, how does this shit make any sense? Obviously, only fucked up people are going to think this is morally acceptable. Adulatory and murder is at the very foundation of this belief system. Why should we continue to split hairs about historical realities confirming this or that about it? We might as well be arguing whether Jeffrey Dahmer ate dead people with a fork or chopsticks!
 
Last edited:
#33
I think that it is important for people to read your experience in its entirety, so I quoted all of it. I am not speaking from the outside, as mentioned before, I grew up in an extremely Christian family. Fundamentally, I think it is a terrible excuse system for people to do crass, deplorable acts to each other; - under the guise of, "We are all sinners, but as long as you believe this, along with Jesus died for your sins, then you are OK to do whatever you want.....as long as you feel like a guilty piece of garbage and repent for a moment or two."

How is this kind of belief system any different than Aleister Crowley's: "Do what that wilt shall be the whole of the law"? It is the same exact Christian behavior without the moral imperative to repent. What is repentance? I think it is a cycle of returning to the same type of morally depraved, power hungry people who feed off of guilty energy. In other words, leaders in the Church. To me, Crowley's belief system is no more than him asserting leadership in the Christian belief system without climbing the ladder.

This is one of the reasons why Matt Whitman's approach is deplorable to me. It isn't necessary to know the scholastic origin of all the bullshit in the bible to see, at face value, that Christianity is a fucked up religion. This is why I use the metaphor of a spiders web. These type of people try to divert you from the basic questions regarding the belief system into inconsequential, historical details that can neither be proved or disproved.

When do they fall apart? Simply ask them: How does it make any sense that God needed to impregnate a married woman, who son was then murdered by all of you sinners? How does it make any sense, whatsoever at all, that you, a sinner and partaker of shit behavior, believing this has happened gives you salvation? Somebody, please, tell me, how does this shit make any sense? Obviously, only fucked up people are going to think this is morally acceptable. Adulatory and murder is at the very foundation of this belief system. Why should we continue to split hairs about historical realities confirming this or that about it? We might as well be arguing whether Jeffrey Dahmer ate dead people with a fork or chopsticks!
Thanks for the plea for some kind of explanation for a such corrupted system. There isn't any sane one that I've ever heard. My parents took my bro & I to a church service featuring a revivalist minister who railed on & on about sin & its punishment. Then he asked those who would repent to come forward to the altar rails to beg forgiveness. I will never forget the scene of three layers of weeping, screaming, slobbering adults on their knees piled up on the altar rails, my mother included. My dad was holding my bro & I close; I'm sure he found that pitiful display of shame & guilt just as shockingly repulsive as we did.
I watched part of Jesus Camp last night. A female youth minister, who was promoting a summer camp, openly explained that Muslims, our enemies, were teaching their children how to use grenades, automatic weapons, etc. This was her justification for training kids in the same fearful & vicious environment as Christian soldiers, ready to die for Jesus. She apparently saw nothing wrong w/ let's be just like them.
 
#34
The Empire never ended, sayeth PKD.
I'm a PK, son of a PK, so I grew up goin to church. Defected in later high school, at some point.
Looked into various other religious sentiments and spiritual teachings. Eventually realized they're all just stories, mostly altered by following political regimes.
Always funny to hear people argue the truth or validity of "The Book". Presumptuous, to say the least. It's a Catholic production, edited for the masses to their liking. Disposes of the troublesome empowering bits, but keeps the "bend over and take it" ones. And changes some names and locations to obfuscate and confuse.
With the number of times Romans changed the calendar, not to mention the Gregorians pretty much just adding 1000 years to the narrative, many of those events were taken from other histories and combined, and the major focus between old and new might have just happened closer to 1000 or less years ago, not 2000. More like, the middle ages. Crusades, Black Death, Constantinople/Istanbul, Kievan Rus, Tataria and Genghis Khan... A world in political upheaval and turmoil.
My thoughts on the New Testament are that it happened around that time, and that things like King Arthur and Knights Templar fleeing from the STURCH are directly related to before and after... Whatever that was.
But, it's like any story, or collection of them, there's things to be gotten from it. But there are also many others.
Scaligerian versus Fomenko aside, mixed up "pagan" wrapped up in a new package, etcetera... There's a LOT missing. Weren't they glad when the printing press fired up. All of those poor monks going blind into the wee hours copying what they're told to copy, trying to "illuminate" the writings to pass on secrets and hidden clues.
A rose by any other name, indeed.
 
#35
The Empire never ended, sayeth PKD.
I'm a PK, son of a PK, so I grew up goin to church. Defected in later high school, at some point.
Looked into various other religious sentiments and spiritual teachings. Eventually realized they're all just stories, mostly altered by following political regimes.
Always funny to hear people argue the truth or validity of "The Book". Presumptuous, to say the least. It's a Catholic production, edited for the masses to their liking. Disposes of the troublesome empowering bits, but keeps the "bend over and take it" ones. And changes some names and locations to obfuscate and confuse.
With the number of times Romans changed the calendar, not to mention the Gregorians pretty much just adding 1000 years to the narrative, many of those events were taken from other histories and combined, and the major focus between old and new might have just happened closer to 1000 or less years ago, not 2000. More like, the middle ages. Crusades, Black Death, Constantinople/Istanbul, Kievan Rus, Tataria and Genghis Khan... A world in political upheaval and turmoil.
My thoughts on the New Testament are that it happened around that time, and that things like King Arthur and Knights Templar fleeing from the STURCH are directly related to before and after... Whatever that was.
But, it's like any story, or collection of them, there's things to be gotten from it. But there are also many others.
Scaligerian versus Fomenko aside, mixed up "pagan" wrapped up in a new package, etcetera... There's a LOT missing. Weren't they glad when the printing press fired up. All of those poor monks going blind into the wee hours copying what they're told to copy, trying to "illuminate" the writings to pass on secrets and hidden clues.
A rose by any other name, indeed.
It's just so obvious that most of us are fed a line of dribble early on. Twilight of the Archons did a masterful job of relating that. I'm just here to serve the rich! I'm just here to serve the rich!
 
#36
Thanks for the plea for some kind of explanation for a such corrupted system. There isn't any sane one that I've ever heard. My parents took my bro & I to a church service featuring a revivalist minister who railed on & on about sin & its punishment. Then he asked those who would repent to come forward to the altar rails to beg forgiveness. I will never forget the scene of three layers of weeping, screaming, slobbering adults on their knees piled up on the altar rails, my mother included. My dad was holding my bro & I close; I'm sure he found that pitiful display of shame & guilt just as shockingly repulsive as we did.
I watched part of Jesus Camp last night. A female youth minister, who was promoting a summer camp, openly explained that Muslims, our enemies, were teaching their children how to use grenades, automatic weapons, etc. This was her justification for training kids in the same fearful & vicious environment as Christian soldiers, ready to die for Jesus. She apparently saw nothing wrong w/ let's be just like them.
Yes, my friend, I know that Christianity is a shit, corrupt religion. In saying that, I know that there are a lot of people who are stuck inside of it. Similarly, this goes for forth Islam, Judaism, and so forth. I am not specifically picking on Christianity, but nor am I forgiving its nature. I think that cults have this "begging for forgiveness" type of behavior in common. They have this impetus to reduce people to crying, flailing, sacks of shit.

There is absolutely no sane explanation for God, the creator of the universe, impregnating a carpenters wife, only to have him murdered by a crowd of assholes.......and for you or anybody else to believe this as the key to salvation. This is the bullshit story that is forced on us since were kids. We aren't allowed to question it at all, simply "have faith." With all honesty and true salvation, I say, fuck that shit.
 
Last edited:
#37
Yes, my friend, I know that Christianity is a shit, corrupt religion. In saying that, I know that there are a lot of people who are stuck inside of it. Similarly, this goes for forth Islam, Judaism, and so forth. I am not specifically picking on Christianity, but nor am I forgiving its nature. I think that cults have this "begging for forgiveness" type of behavior in common. They have this impetus to reduce people to crying, flailing, sacks of shit.

There is absolutely no sane explanation for God, the creator of the universe, impregnating a carpenters wife, only to have him murdered by a crowd of assholes.......and for you or anybody else to believe this as the key to salvation. This is the bullshit story that is forced on us since we are kinds. We aren't allowed to question it at all, simply "have faith." With all honesty and true salvation, I say, fuck that shit.
On the other hand as imperfect as it is it does provide a meaningful structure for many..at least...
Which can not be said of science.
 
Last edited:
#38
Sure, there's lots of good stories. I think the OT is closer to some Abrahamic history than the NT. Pretty sure it's talking about events in the middle ages right before its publication and issuance.
And that the STURCH removed the "don't put up with shit" part of the teachings.
Also think there have been drops in harmonic and consciousness and that abilities of the past have been successively more difficult to manifest. Leaving the earth wide open for coordinated takeover.
Don't believe the human progress lie in the obvious sense, either. IMO most of the "natives" all over the planet were survivors of past cataclysms. Most everyone found near ruins or ancient sites hadn't a clue about those people from before...
23.jpg
 

Alex

Administrator
#39
I really did enjoy this episode, despite my disdain of Christianity. To me, all religions, whether they call themselves "spiritual" or not, are like a spider's web. There is certainly a place for spiders in this world, and also a place for the flies that need to crash into them. Certainly, there is also a place for webs. My "Christ consciousness," for lack of a better description of true spiritual states co-opped by all religions, tells me to love both, spiders and flies. Also, to appreciate the interaction between spiders and flies.

I like Whitman's all out honesty regarding doubt and his return to "eyes wide open" faith. I really enjoyed his honesty regarding spiritual breakdown. Nevertheless, he is turning back to the same web of nonsense that he was originally involved in before he stepped down from being a pastor.

Who cares if Josephus was a propaganda guy or not? Obviously, beyond a shadow of a doubt "in the valley of death," Christianity, and every other mass belief system, is an object of propaganda itself. Splitting hairs about whether or not the origins had anything to do with all the stooges and shills who assisted in the system is like having to taste test shit after you have already smelled it!
I think 9-11 was an inside job. I don't think LHO was a lone nut assassin. I think these things matter. they don't matter on the "who are we" why are we here level", but they matter more than 90% of the bullshit we waste our time with.
 

Alex

Administrator
#40
Listening To Theories Of Everything w Curt Jaimungal Ep.61 Part II of Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke.

At 2:07:00 Kastrup ".... because, to control the shadow you need to grant it the right to exist and to be there, and only then can you police it."
(This quote was at the end of a response which started at 1:58:50).
maybe, but karma/reincarnation/NDE doesn't exactly aligned with this idea.

seems to me that in this time space reality evil may exist whether we "granted it the right" or not.
 
Top