Max Planck Vs. AI… Scientific Materialism is Kaput |602|

I agree. And you said it much better than I would have. And that got my wheels turning even more.
*You got an A+ on the thought experiment above. Below are just some more thoughts.

So back to Language. I'm currently working through an idea that Language can carry Intent that has nothing to do with it. Like symbolism. Or Markers! like you said..!(Awesome).
Many people believe that "God" "Speaks" to humans through synchronicity. Like little hints or markers that validate one's trajectory.
I think the same must apply for the Evil forces...
Hear me out..
When somebody says "God told me this" or "God told me that". In my opinion their positions is too dumbfounded(or too excited) to identify/specify the difference between words - vs - what is actually their mind translating synchronicity into words.

To keep with the Mario analogy, imagine that Mario notices every time he approaches a difficult part of a level that he's been failing at, there often occurs a weird blip of his sense of time - nothing physical - and his watch reads the same, but he feels something weird, and notices that these events usually come before a smoother more-gathered and often successful attempt. And on the outside (in the real world) what's occurring and what Mario is sensing is the Player (you) is pausing the game to take a deep breath and think about how you're going to win that part of the level.

So another method of interdimensional "travel" could just be identifying synchronicities and interacting with them.

I have a really yucky dirty theory that this is what they "Elite" "Oligarchs" are doing and that it has something to do with maintaining a sufficient balance of evil in our realm, while facilitating experiments on behalf of someone on the outside of our realm(real science). Sorry, it's a messy theory part of which is borrowed from others and I hope to clean it up.
Thanks, I thoroughly agree with you about people getting overly excited about markers from other dimensions, that these people avidly put their own interpretation on them, without being sceptical enough about what the markers could really be about and who/what put them there.
 
And there's plenty of evidence of different power elites communicating with other-dimensional entities, as Marty Garza's research so painstakingly shows.

I've thought about the balance of "good" and "evil" many times, especially with reference to the traditions talking about Yugas / Ages, from a high, truthful age to an age of darkness and deceit.

Many of the gods talked about in mythology and folklore, and UFO beings reported in recent centuries also have a distinctly deceitful behaviour.

That seems to be a crucial divide in "good" vs "evil". The good speak what they believe to be the truth, whereas the evil are deceivers.

As you might know, the Golden Age according to ancient Indian mythology, 'Satya Yuga', literally means "the age of truth or sincerity".
 
I really like where you're going with the Super Mario analogy. How do you imagine the phenomenon of (say) synchronicities would fit into the analogy more specifically?
 
I really like where you're going with the Super Mario analogy. How do you imagine the phenomenon of (say) synchronicities would fit into the analogy more specifically?
Happy to.

(did a little rambling here, but some good exploration)

As the human player, looking at the tv screen, there exists nothing that you could exchange back and forth with Mario that would break the barrier of the difference is your two realms - or, said differently, you cannot transfer something from the human realm into Mario's realm, nor vice versa transfer something from Mario's realm into the Human realm. I think this also applies to spirit. I think we (your and my consciousness) are truly looking through our eyeballs from outside of this realm - and that the interface is so seamless that we feel like our spirit is inside this body, but again I think it's not. Note, this is my current speculation and may change drastically upon further study.

Is I see it, if that differential barrier between the two realms cannot by their nature be breached, then the only communication between the two must be circumstantial communication. As an aside, I think it seems obvious that there exists a spirit realm, but I think the Mario analogy still applies. Such that Mario may experience interaction both with spirits that exist in the Video Game world, and spirits that exist in the Player world, but as imagining what the difference would be between a spirit and a player in the Player world I have no idea.

Back to speculating about pathways of communication between a Human Player & Mario Realm. I've heard people speculate that this what's happening with the Mandel Effect.. Granted I think the Mandela Effect is subject to / must have been coopted like every other spiritual trip. But lets say as the Player, you pause the game, alter the code so that all flowers are orange instead of green, then unpause. Mario would have no evidence that anything had changed.. but for example that type of change could be implemented as a specific time to coincide with something positive which could convey to Mario the idea that there exists a force outside of his world capable of altering his reality, and that force leans toward positivity.

Another example of communication via synchronicity would be if the Player notice Mario "waking up", such as Mario looking around his world contemplatively. In those instances the player could do things like pause the game, or save the game, or other various things that don't change anything in Mario's world, but his connection to the world would still likely experience those events in some unexplainable way.

Will be thinking more about his.
 
The next food for thought on this Mario analogy would be as follows.

If you as a video gamer had the chance to transfer you consciousness into Mario, including a mindwipe, and so seamlessly that while in Mario's world you would struggle to imagine that you even exist outside of Mario's world... Before taking that journey, what kind of things would you foresee wanting to communicate about between the two realms?
 
Hmm, what I like about the Super Mario analogy is it broadens and deepens my appreciation for how nuanced and different the dimensions of 'consciousness' could be, even though there is an essential oneness to everything.

But your view that there's a 'differential barrier between the two realms [that] cannot by their nature be breached' doesn't resonate with my view.
 
I think there's a PERMEATION and INTER-MESHING of dimensions of 'consciousness', including in the physical world, so it's not entirely 'non-local'.

I have a few main reasons for this:

1) telepathy and channeling information from 'spiritual'/non-physical entities.

2) there are layers of energy/consciousness between the physical and the unmanifested, such as prana/life energy, and this energy can be manipulated (even programmed) by thought.

3) astral projection/OBEs I have tried and almost succeeded, and felt the intense sensation of the 'soul' almost getting out of the physical body, hearing a tremendous noise like a train in a tunnel (a rushing sound), and almost feeling as if I (the soul) were attached to the physical body like by velcro or by multitudes of energy threads; but I couldn't quite get out of the physical body. Then for the next week I felt as if I wasn't fully incarnated. As if I were a somewhat hollow shell moving around. Then at a friend's suggestion, I called myself fully back again, calling my essence back, and straight away I felt the energy coming back to my physical body and felt normal again, present, and able to feel the joy of life.

 
Those are some of my experiences, and much of this correlates with others' experiences too.

So I agree with you that 'consciousness' is extremely differentiated and ultimately one.
But I see different dimensions of consciousness very much permeating and interacting with each other.
 
Hmm, what I like about the Super Mario analogy is it broadens and deepens my appreciation for how nuanced and different the dimensions of 'consciousness' could be, even though there is an essential oneness to everything.

But your view that there's a 'differential barrier between the two realms [that] cannot by their nature be breached' doesn't resonate with my view.
To clarify a little. I'm onboard with communication happening between the many layers. Where I feel firm regarding the barrier is with the way it relates to the inability to transfer substance of one realm to the other. Beyond that I have to circle back to the baseline premise of the analogy which is mainly a tool for imagining how/why communication is possible but substance transfer is not. And I think the benefit of the analogy is to shed light on areas where it's otherwise difficult to picture those boundaries.
That said, I'm glad you pointed out your experience/studies of interaction between the realms, because I don't want overstretch the analogy.

Also the part I hadn't mentioned before is (obviously) the Mario analogy is just building off of other peoples ideas, like The Matrix idea. I like the Mario picture because it's so much easier to identify Mario world as a projection of pixels than it is to see The Matrix the same way.
 
To clarify a little. I'm onboard with communication happening between the many layers. Where I feel firm regarding the barrier is with the way it relates to the inability to transfer substance of one realm to the other. Beyond that I have to circle back to the baseline premise of the analogy which is mainly a tool for imagining how/why communication is possible but substance transfer is not. And I think the benefit of the analogy is to shed light on areas where it's otherwise difficult to picture those boundaries.
That said, I'm glad you pointed out your experience/studies of interaction between the realms, because I don't want overstretch the analogy.

Also the part I hadn't mentioned before is (obviously) the Mario analogy is just building off of other peoples ideas, like The Matrix idea. I like the Mario picture because it's so much easier to identify Mario world as a projection of pixels than it is to see The Matrix the same way.
Thanks Robbe, in some ways we're resoundingly in agreement (I've written a more detailed response below). :)

Wondering about others' views on this too.

Alex or anyone else?
 
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To clarify a little. I'm onboard with communication happening between the many layers. Where I feel firm regarding the barrier is with the way it relates to the inability to transfer substance of one realm to the other.
I once experienced a ghost, which has a long backstory to it, but over a period of a few days it had made itself known by zapping me with the same feel as touching an electric fence. It had influenced the electrics in the apartment too, especially my computer. And one night me and my girlfriend at the time were lying in bed with the lights off and just the glow of the fire-oven which we were looking at. Then both of us saw a shadowy figure walk across the room in front of us, and it smashed up against the metal door of the fire-oven angrily, so hard that there was a crashing sound and the flames leaped up in the fireplace.

I'm convinced this was indeed a ghost. There were many other aspects to those few days that convinced me too. No drugs involved. And I didn't feel overly 'transcendent' during those days. And yet this apparent ghost smashed itself against the physical oven door, causing a crash. So I don't think it's true that there's an 'inability to transfer substance of one realm to another'.
 
There are also stories of rituals in which people summon entities in a circle and during the ritual these entities appear to become 'physical'.

To what degree one gives credence to those reports is up for debate of course. But overall there seems to be a pattern of permeability between dimensions.
 
The more I think about this, the more I see the dimensions as complicated and permeated. Any one level one focuses on, one sees evidence of permeating: e.g.

- a dream in which another person shows up and that person confirms they experienced the same dream the next day;

- NDEs in which ET appear;

- normal dreams which become lucid dreams, that in turn through various techniques (such as meditating in the lucid dream) then turn into astral projection;

- different states or depths of presence.

Which is truly an "awakened" state?
(I see the dimensions as far, far more complex and permeated than The Matrix or Super Mario analogies - nevertheless helpful to an extent as I find these)
 
PS: When I look at that list above, it begins to look more and more like The Inception.

What is the real awakened state?......

 
The more I think about this, the more I see the dimensions as complicated and permeated. Any one level one focuses on, one sees evidence of permeating: e.g.

- a dream in which another person shows up and that person confirms they experienced the same dream the next day;

- NDEs in which ET appear;

- normal dreams which become lucid dreams, that in turn through various techniques (such as meditating in the lucid dream) then turn into astral projection;

- different states or depths of presence.

Which is truly an "awakened" state?
(I see the dimensions as far, far more complex and permeated than The Matrix or Super Mario analogies - nevertheless helpful to an extent as I find these)
Brilliant, and well said.

I currently believe in reincarnation. I didn't 10 years ago. But now it just makes sense of everything.
My only hypothetical argument against the NDE/OBE data on reincarnation is the possibility that what appears to be reincarnation is instead only people having downloaded the experiences of others prior to their one-shot singular incarnation (similar to how Neo downloaded Kung Fu, or Trinity downloaded Helicopter training..). And while the likelihood of that seems negligible, I still insist it's not falsifiable.

That being said. I lean toward the idea that our many incarnations, disembodied experiences, spirit realm existence, etc are all occurring within layers of THIS realm - with our higher selves "plugged-in" many levels above in the "real world". (Perhaps the ghosts in Pac-Man represent this aspect better than Mario)
 
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Brilliant, and well said.

I currently believe in reincarnation. I didn't 10 years ago. But now it just makes sense of everything.
My only hypothetical argument against the NDE/OBE data on reincarnation is the possibility that what appears to be reincarnation is instead only people having downloaded the experiences of others prior to their one-shot singular incarnation (similar to how Neo downloaded Kung Fu, or Trinity downloaded Helicopter training..). And while the likelihood of that seems negligible, I still insist it's not falsifiable.

That being said. I lean toward the idea that our many incarnations, disembodied experiences, spirit realm existence, etc are all occurring within layers of THIS realm - with our higher selves "plugged-in" many levels above in the "real world". (Perhaps the ghosts in Pac-Man represent this aspect better than Mario)
Thanks Robbe. I agree with you about reincarnation too. I think it's a real phenomenon but that many people seem to be having 'downloads' of information on others' incarnations and assume they are reincarnation flashbacks of themselves (which ultimately is probably true but on the level of an individual soul isn't)...
 
Can you please elaborate on the ghost in Pac Man analogy? I'm not so familiar with Pac Man, just that it's a very old school game that I played a few times when I was a boy
 
Can you please elaborate on the ghost in Pac Man analogy? I'm not so familiar with Pac Man, just that it's a very old school game that I played a few times when I was a boy
There's a theory/concept/lore out there somewhere that says (roughly paraphrasing) that when we die The Moon eats our souls and spits them back into our next reincarnation. In the game Pac-Man is suposed to represent The Moon - and he chases around a bunch Ghosts and when he catches them they temporarily get cast off of the field and continuously respawn.
This analogy helps with the idea of our Earth existence having a spirit realm overlaid upon/throughout it.
I think when we die we go to any-of-an-unknowable-number-of-phases-of that spirit realm..... which, to reiterate, is still here with this/our realm.
So I think it's quite possible that all of the NDE/OBE experiences are all happening "within the video game" / while still technically "plugged in".
 
However with quantum physics a 3rd possibility emerged (3) the universe is offering subjective potential futures for conscious lifeforms (such as humans) to choose between. The lifeform has some freedom to choose between the choices nature allows. This allows an evolutionary advantage via natural selection if the lifeform can somehow learn to select outcomes in which it better survives or further develops.
Hi Open Mind. Wanted to ask you a little more about this, since I'm pretty familiar with a lot of the stuff you mentioned, but I'm not sure what you're referring to here. What exactly is this third possibility?

I hope I'm not being an asshole by disregarding everything you said in your post (and maybe I'm actually just missing the point anyway), but my question always is, do we really need to look to physics in the first place? I think it's important to understand the physics in general, and to understand how physics relates to consciousness and psi and all that stuff in particular, but is physics some sort of rulebook that we need to reference when we try to understand things? Especially if we're trying to understand phenomena that seem non-physical. I think parapsychology already gives us evidence that either we need to add to or even completely revise our understanding of physics, or we need to learn to go without it sometimes. In either case, I don't think there's any reason to believe that we're using the right rulebook.

If you want to draw me into a conversation about free will, I have a little spiel about it, and in good Skeptiko fashion, I'll organize it into levels:

Level 1: Alex has brought up neuroplasticity in the past, arguing that we have laboratory evidence that consciousness can affect neurology. Consciousness is assumed to be at the very top of the ontological hierarchy, where it has zero casual power, and yet we see that a phenomenon supposedly at the top of the hierarchy can influence the lower levels. I think this is an important piece of the puzzle, but a materialist could still make a legitimate argument that your decision to change your neurology was still the product of physical processes, so you still don't really have free will.

Level 2: Okay, but: Since PK is real, couldn't it be operating at the level of neurochemicals in the brain? So that whatever physics told those molecules to do before you make a decision, it gets completely overridden by the psychokinetic influence of consciousness on the behavior of the molecules.

Level 3: Even so, I think perhaps the most important question is not "could you have done differently", but "can you still have done differently"? You say this:

Super-determinism implies all events backwards and forward in time are fixed, such a fantasy world may appeal to mathematicians but the best mathematicians are obliged to describe a universe where humans empirical experience of conscious free will actually does something causal - rather than a super-deterministic creationism where humans are puppet spectators.

I don't really believe in superdeterminism, but I think it's an open question whether all events in time are fixed. I think it's actually possible–although I don't think that means we don't have free will; it's just that if time is "nonlinear" in some way, and if some event in the present depends not just on past events but also future ones, then you could draw a causal arrow through pretty much every event, which effectively knits all of time together, leaving zero wiggle room. On the other hand, if events aren't fixed, then I think we should ask ourselves the question of whether the past is also not fixed, and if we might be able to change it in some way.
 
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