Mitch Horowitz, Who Inspires You Satan or Jesus? |508|

We are going to have to differ on that. The law has to set a minimum age for such activity, and that age varies from country to country, but it is important to realise that Gislaine Maxwell picked up those girls using the fact that she was a woman, and took them to that island using one excuse or another. I expect many of those girls feared for their lives so it isn't reasonable to suggest they consented. I'd like to see Gislaine and Price Andrew do many years of jail time for what they did.

David
Nah - I've listened to interviews with some of the girls. They were well steeped in delivering sexual favors prior to traveling to the island. What kind of girl from NYC is clueless about why an old man would want her to come to his house for private massages? What kind of 16 year old is working in a massage parlor in the first place (which a couple were doing before meeting Epstein)? Where the hell were their parents? One of the girls seemed pretty happy to be photoed with your royal prince. IMO, the girls were attracted to the powerful connections, lifestyle and money. There is no evidence of rape (as in forced sex) or kidnapping. The girls' allegation in large part amount to "These dirty old men took advantage of me when I was young and stupid. I want some of their money now that my life has been mispent".

As you say, we will have agree to disagree.
 

Alex

Administrator
Members of the cult were arrested in Tallahassee with three children. True. What does that have to do with the CIA?
- the arrests in Tallahassee directly led to the raid of the warehouse in Washington DC
- the washington DC warehouse had evidence of child ponography including the studio
- this led to an investigation by US customs officer Ramon J Martinez
- martinez and his partner report that they were told to the investigation upon orders of the CIA
- the owner of the warehouse has deep us intelligence connections
- that tallahassee police were to stop investigating the case

as far as john brisson... he has done interviews with representatives from the tallahassee police department as well as prosecuting attorney Willie Meggs, U S Customs John Sullivan, and Ramon J Martinez’s partner Bob Harrold.
 
- the arrests in Tallahassee directly led to the raid of the warehouse in Washington DC
- the washington DC warehouse had evidence of child ponography including the studio
- this led to an investigation by US customs officer Ramon J Martinez
- martinez and his partner report that they were told to the investigation upon orders of the CIA
- the owner of the warehouse has deep us intelligence connections
- that tallahassee police were to stop investigating the case

as far as john brisson... he has done interviews with representatives from the tallahassee police department as well as prosecuting attorney Willie Meggs, U S Customs John Sullivan, and Ramon J Martinez’s partner Bob Harrold.
I'm not defending The Finders. I hate these idiotic cults - and I extra hate idiotic cults that mess with children. I have no doubt that that the finders, like cults throughout history, were doing bad things to children.

Martinez's claim that the CIA shut down the investigation is not accurate. First off, Martinez claimed that the CIA would not provide him information that he was seeking because that info, if it even existed, was classified. So let's get that straight first. The info had to do with Martinez's theories of potential international criminal activities committed by the finders; specifically importing/exporting child pornography and possible human trafficking. Martinez never claimed the CIA shut down the investigation. Who knows what kind of wild goose chase Martinez wanted to go on. Anyhow, I said before, the CIA is not a criminal investigatory agency. They're not going to let Martinez go on a fishing expedition with classified info; children or no children involved.

Next, the FBI specifically addressed Martinez's claim and determined it to be unfounded. That result is in the very documents you pointed out to me. Martinez was periphery to the case, not some kind of lead. The FBI was the lead. They apparently determined that the material found in the warehouse did not rise to the level of pornography under the law. The Finders explained that naked pics of children was just part of their life style (along with naked pics of adults). Their cult was into being natural and it was a protected religious thing. It's right there in the FBI docs. I haven't seen the pics and neither have you. You're making assumptions and so was Martinez. Again, I'm not defending the finders. I hate them, but only cases that can be successfully prosecuted will be brought before a grand jury. The FBI felt this one wouldn't fly.



The owner of the storage locker has "deep" connections to the US IC? What is a "deep" connection? They must not be very good at their job if a reporter can reveal deep ties. Members of the IC can't invest in storage facilities? Owners of storage facilities are responsible for what people put in the units? If that were true, there are a lot of storage facility owners that are going to be put in jail. Fortunately, I don't think there is any law or legal precedent to support your idea. Like I said, everyone in the DC area works for govt/military in some capacity.

This - CIA running The Finders - is a classic conspiracy theory based on the most flimsy of circumstantial "evidence" and then lots of coloring in blank spaces with pure speculation.

Sorry Alex. I think your shows on psi, life after death, ET and the rest of that genre are excellent. I love 'em. But this conspiracy theory stuff is unfortunate. Now Covid, that is a conspiracy compounded by group think and fear. Just because some little fringe program called MK Ultra existed and did indeed do bad things (for which they were caught and publicly excoriated) doesn't mean that everything the CIA does is along those lines and that everything unpleasant in the world is a CIA operation. Mostly the CIA is just incompetent, especially since Obama, because politicians and other interest groups interfere with the analysis.
 
Last edited:
Anyhow, for those moralizing about underage sex, etc. - just keep in mind that our governments must approve. Many of the tens of thousand of Afghan refugees are arriving into the western world with child brides. It's just part of the new normal. It would seem that at least the democrats among us actually approve. They voted for this crap. CIA plot? Nope. Just morons virtue signaling their way to hell.
 

Alex

Administrator
Martinez's claim that the CIA shut down the investigation is not accurate. First off, Martinez claimed that the CIA would not provide him information that he was seeking because that info, if it even existed, was classified. So let's get that straight first. The info had to do with Martinez's theories of potential international criminal activities committed by the finders; specifically importing/exporting child pornography and possible human trafficking. Martinez never claimed the CIA shut down the investigation. Who knows what kind of wild goose chase Martinez wanted to go on.
The subsequent and final publicly available Customs document penned by Martinez is dated April 13, 1987 — more than two months after his previously discussed report. In it, he summarizes salient points from his earlier report:

https://citizentruth.org/losing-fin...nts-that-linked-the-infamous-cult-to-the-cia/

On Thursday, February 5, 1987, Senior Special Agent Harrold and I assisted the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) with two search warrants involving the possible sexual exploitation of children. During the course of the search warrants, numerous documents were discovered which appeared to be concerned with international trafficking in children, high tech transfer to the United Kingdom, and international transfer of currency.

Martinez goes on to describe what followed after the searches were completed, stating:

On March 31, 1987, I contacted Detective James Bradley of the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD). I was to meet with Detective Bradley to review the documents seized pursuant to two search warrants executed in February 1987. The meeting was to take place on April 2 or 3, 1987.

On April 2, 1987, I arrived at MPD at approximately 9:00 a.m. Detective Bradley was not available. I spoke to a third party who was willing to discuss the case with me on a strictly “off the record” basis.

I was advised that all the passport data had been turned over to the State Department for their investigation. The State Department, in turn, advised MPD that all travel and use of the passports by the holders of the passports was within the law and no action would be taken. This included travel to Moscow, North Korea, and North Vietnam from the late 1950’s to mid 1970’s.

The individual further advised me of circumstances which indicated that the investigation into the activity of the FINDERS had become a CIA internal matter. The MPD report has been classified secret and was not available for review. I was advised that the FBI had withdrawn from the investigation several weeks prior and that the FBI Foreign Counter Intelligence [sic] Division had directed MPD not to advise the FBI Washington Field Office of anything that had transpired.

No further information will be available. No further action will be taken. No action to be taken on the basis of this report.


=====

I don't think it's reasonable to process all this verifiable evidence of the sex crimes against children and the claims by those like martinez and others who were in the official capacity to investigate... it's just seems kind of silly to defend US intelligence agencies in the face of all this evidence.
 
The subsequent and final publicly available Customs document penned by Martinez is dated April 13, 1987 — more than two months after his previously discussed report. In it, he summarizes salient points from his earlier report:

https://citizentruth.org/losing-fin...nts-that-linked-the-infamous-cult-to-the-cia/

On Thursday, February 5, 1987, Senior Special Agent Harrold and I assisted the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) with two search warrants involving the possible sexual exploitation of children. During the course of the search warrants, numerous documents were discovered which appeared to be concerned with international trafficking in children, high tech transfer to the United Kingdom, and international transfer of currency.

Martinez goes on to describe what followed after the searches were completed, stating:

On March 31, 1987, I contacted Detective James Bradley of the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD). I was to meet with Detective Bradley to review the documents seized pursuant to two search warrants executed in February 1987. The meeting was to take place on April 2 or 3, 1987.

On April 2, 1987, I arrived at MPD at approximately 9:00 a.m. Detective Bradley was not available. I spoke to a third party who was willing to discuss the case with me on a strictly “off the record” basis.

I was advised that all the passport data had been turned over to the State Department for their investigation. The State Department, in turn, advised MPD that all travel and use of the passports by the holders of the passports was within the law and no action would be taken. This included travel to Moscow, North Korea, and North Vietnam from the late 1950’s to mid 1970’s.

The individual further advised me of circumstances which indicated that the investigation into the activity of the FINDERS had become a CIA internal matter. The MPD report has been classified secret and was not available for review. I was advised that the FBI had withdrawn from the investigation several weeks prior and that the FBI Foreign Counter Intelligence [sic] Division had directed MPD not to advise the FBI Washington Field Office of anything that had transpired.

No further information will be available. No further action will be taken. No action to be taken on the basis of this report.

=====

I don't think it's reasonable to process all this verifiable evidence of the sex crimes against children and the claims by those like martinez and others who were in the official capacity to investigate... it's just seems kind of silly to defend US intelligence agencies in the face of all this evidence.
Alex,
You are reading a lot into a little.

How does anything in your most recent comment suggest - let alone prove - that the CIA was running the Finders cult as an operation? By way of a reminder, that was, after all, your original claim.

You have one statement made by a customs agent, Martinez. Martinez didn't even hear from the CIA directly. He's repeating what he recalls being told by someone who's also repeating what he's allegedly been told. That is called "hearsay" and is not admissible in a court of law. It's not like anyone has a recording of what the CIA said. On top of that, if the CIA did pretty much say what they are alleged to have said, I a) agree with the CIA and b) there is nothing in the statement that points to the CIA running the Finders, or even turning a blind eye to child trafficking/molestation.

Yes, if you're traveling to communist countries, the CIA is going to be looking at you. No, the CIA isn't going to tell some low level cop what they have gathered. The CIA isn't in the business of investigating criminals for the purpose of bringing them to justice unless the criminals are also involved in a national security threat. In government bureaucracy the bureaus stay in their lanes. They focus where the funding directs them to focus. The bureaus do not cooperate well. Lack of cooperation is not a sign of conspiracy. It's just business as normal.

Once again, the conspiracy theory perspective is suffering from not knowing how things really work and is clinging to sparse low quality "evidence" and then doing a lot of creative coloring.

I think you will find this interview with a former CIA guy interesting and informative. After a few minutes of introductions, the interview jumps right into a long discussion of human trafficking.



Ex-CIA Agent Reveals How to End Human Trafficking - YouTube
 
Last edited:
Top