Pam Popper, Fight for Health Rights |526|

Does anyone have access to the full article of this?

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
I don't think there is a full article - it seems to part of a supplement publishing the abstract presentations at the American Heart Association's recent conference. So it would only be available as an abstract, with no guarantee that it would be published in the future (most aren't).

https://www.ahajournals.org/toc/circ/144/Suppl_1

There is this "expression of concern" associated with the article, which refers only to an abstract.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001051

ETA:
I'm familiar with poster and abstract presentations at scientific conferences. But I don't think I've ever seen an "expression of concern" before, for one of them. Did the anti-vaxxers pick up this result as somehow supporting their concerns (I have to say, that looking through the other abstracts presented at that conference on COVID, that there were way, way, way, more reports about the effects of COVID on the heart and heart attacks, than reports about the vaccines), and it's making its way around social media, or something? Otherwise, why would anybody bother commenting about an abstract which will likely never see publication? Weird.
 
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Masks can easily do more harm than good. They soon get wet - perhaps more so if someone is coming down with something - and people touch the damn things all the time because they are uncomfortable, thus spreading any bugs onto handrails, doorknobs, etc. They might be more believable if people were regularly warned not to fiddle with their masks.

LOL. It might help if they weren't called "stupid beyond comprehension" when they leave their masks alone. I'm not sure "some people don't use them quite properly" is actually a valid argument against their use.

I think the primary purpose of the masks was to scare people.

David

I always felt like the primary purpose of telling people it was okay to wear masks - as long as they weren't taking masks away from health care workers - was to give people an opportunity to feel like they were helping. Silly me for attributing it to people caring about other people.
 
I have a good friend that I talked to a couple of months ago about the vaccine - she was hesitant because she had a friend who had developed Guillain Barre Syndrome a week or two after getting the vaccine. We tried to find information on GBS and the vaccine - it seems there is a likely association with COVID, and potentially an association with the vaccine (too weak to tell at the moment). (That seems to be another condition where COVID is a bigger problem than the vaccine.) She and her husband never did get the vaccine and they both recently got sick with COVID. She eventually was well enough to go home from the hospital (although she still feels pretty sick at home alone). Her husband is still in the ICU on a ventilator and they don't know if he'll recover. They are both great people and I'm really worried about him.

So, I just got a text...my friend's husband just died from COVID. She and his parents made the decision to withdraw life-support today, as it was hopeless. I'm heartbroken. He was a great guy and she's going to be devastated. He was healthy and not that old. It's not fair. I guess deep down I didn't really believe it could happen like this.
 
So, I just got a text...my friend's husband just died from COVID. She and his parents made the decision to withdraw life-support today, as it was hopeless. I'm heartbroken. He was a great guy and she's going to be devastated. He was healthy and not that old. It's not fair. I guess deep down I didn't really believe it could happen like this.

I’m sorry about your friend, (his wife too).

Did he have other issues, was he obese, and most important, did he get treated early once diagnosed, or was he left at home to wait until he was so sick he ended up at A&E and subsequently on a ventilator?
If the latter was not true for him, it certainly has been the case with countless others, which I think is inexcusable.

Why are available, safe, cheap, and effective drugs not given to people like your friends early after diagnosis, if they are struggling? I would really love to hear a good answer to this question.
 
I’m sorry about your friend, (his wife too).

Did he have other issues, was he obese, and most important, did he get treated early once diagnosed, or was he left at home to wait until he was so sick he ended up at A&E and subsequently on a ventilator?
If the latter was not true for him, it certainly has been the case with countless others, which I think is inexcusable.

Why are available, safe, cheap, and effective drugs not given to people like your friends early after diagnosis, if they are struggling? I would really love to hear a good answer to this question.

As far as I know, he didn't have other issues. The people in our countries have been receiving the best care. The only safe and effective drug he didn't take was the vaccine, unfortunately. If there had been a mandate, he would still be alive - is that what you are suggesting?
 
Well, then it's science time! Yet another official UK Health Agency report, and things are getting worse for the fully vaccinated:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...047/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_47.pdf

A detailed analysis of the data is provided here:

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/11/27/only-the-fully-vaccinated-should-fear-the-new-variant/

Seriously??!! I'm not an epidemiologist, and even I can tell how stupid that "analysis" is. At no point is there ever mention of the huge disparity in the denominators that go along with those raw numbers. Nor is there any mention that the denominators in one group are steadily increasing while in the other they are steadily decreasing. And there's no excuse for this, as the UK report also provides the unadjusted rates per 100,000, which show that the rates of hospitalization and death continue to be much, much lower among the vaccinated.

The person writing that article clearly doesn't know what they are doing. So why would you expect me to listen to them, when I just told you I'm interested in science/evidence?
 
Yes, I’ve tried to be clear that I’m a science/evidence kind of guy,

If that is a true statement, what evidence do you have for making this one?

The people in our countries have been receiving the best care.

Doctors basically buggered off when the lockdowns began, and haven’t yet returned, the NHS is a shambles, people are dying at home etc,etc, - it’s a disgrace, and you must know it. Your friends death is sad, but no sadder than any other unnecessary death.

 
If that is a true statement, what evidence do you have for making this one?

Doctors basically buggered off when the lockdowns began, and haven’t yet returned, the NHS is a shambles, people are dying at home etc,etc, - it’s a disgrace, and you must know it. Your friends death is sad, but no sadder than any other unnecessary death.


My friend and I are not in the UK. And you were asking about treatment for COVID.
 
The people in our countries have been receiving the best care.

How can you know how good care is in other countries, never mind our own, unless you are involved directly, and even then, it’s no guarantee of what is happening elsewhere in any particular country.

And you were asking about treatment for COVID.

Yes, of course, it has to be about Covid. The ‘bigger picture’ has been left behind to die a lonely death.
 
How can you know how good care is in other countries, never mind our own, unless you are involved directly, and even then, it’s no guarantee of what is happening elsewhere in any particular country.

I know what care he received, and he was in a major center (he was transferred early). And there are consistent standards of care which apply across the US as they do in Canada. When those standards were in danger (during the summer when there was a large increase in COVID cases and hospitals were overloaded in some areas in the US and Canada), it made the news.

Yes, of course, it has to be about Covid. The ‘bigger picture’ has been left behind to die a lonely death.

You were the one who asked about their COVID care. I've also seen concern expressed among physicians, the CDC, insurance groups, etc. about the effects of delays in preventative care and other treatments, down the road. Some of this may not show up for several years. At least some of that was driven by people not accessing health care, even though it was available. Some of it came about during the times hospitals were overwhelmed by COVID. So just because I answered your question about COVID care doesn't mean that other concerns were ignored.
 
I know what care he received,

Are you a Physician or someone else that worked directly on him? If not, then that’s likely to be wishful thinking Imo. It might be true, it probably is - but you can’t know that.

And there are consistent standards of care which apply across the US as they do in Canada.

There is theory and there is practise. You sound like a typical government advertisement! I’m sure the US has the highest standards in the world in some areas (both meanings), but in all? Doctors like those in the FLCCC might have something different to say about this. In my opinion lots of (especially) elderly people have died needlessly because or a lack of early treatments across many of the worlds countries. The misinformation/politicisation of Ivermectin & Hydrochloroquine must surely have cost lives? So you saying…

he was transferred early

…makes me wonder if he was treated early. Probably not!

Some of this may not show up for several years.

Yes, but in several years it’ll be old news, so you and others currently pushing for vaccinations and masks/lockdowns will be conveniently forgotten by the majority but not by all. So spare me your highly selective sympathy.

At least some of that was driven by people not accessing health care, even though it was available.

People here were told to stay at home and save the NHS, which the papers told us was swamped with covid patients, while many nurses were so bored they made choreographed dancing videos of themselves which were widely seen - not on the BBC or other msm, of course.

Was it really available? In the UK it largely wasn’t, I’m sure the US wasn’t that different. Yes, to celebs, politicians and selected others, but to the average man in the street - I doubt it.

Ellis, so far you have not made any persuasive argument to convince me. You may sound like you know stuff, but I think not. It’s mainly just regurgitated officialdom. The words of Alexander O’Neal come to mind - “you’re a fake” - you probably can’t see that, but in a way, by largely spouting the official lies and nonsense, it’s what it makes you.
 
Are you a Physician or someone else that worked directly on him? If not, then that’s likely to be wishful thinking Imo. It might be true, it probably is - but you can’t know that.

There is theory and there is practise. You sound like a typical government advertisement! I’m sure the US has the highest standards in the world in some areas (both meanings), but in all? Doctors like those in the FLCCC might have something different to say about this. In my opinion lots of (especially) elderly people have died needlessly because or a lack of early treatments across many of the worlds countries. The misinformation/politicisation of Ivermectin & Hydrochloroquine must surely have cost lives? So you saying…

…makes me wonder if he was treated early. Probably not!

Well yes, you can make up anything you want under the CT/FE way of thinking. It doesn't make any of it true.

When people aren't treated early, when treatments are delayed, when they aren't offered appropriate care, that's the kind of thing we hear about. It makes the news. People complain about it on social media. People always over-complain about this stuff, not participate in hiding it. When Alberta was on the brink of preparing to triage patients this summer, it was all over the news - even I heard about and I'm in the US.

Nobody complained about or mentioned delays in his care. The timeline didn't allow for delays. The center he was transferred to is high-quality. The care he received sounded appropriate, but I also ran it by my brother-in-law (who's an ICU doc at a university center). But even if I didn't know/do all that, I'm not going to randomly make up a scenario in which everything went wrong and nobody mentioned it, and presume that's what happened until proven otherwise in order to cling to a particular agenda.

And nobody cares about the FLCCC, except the CT/FEers. The actual decent studies that have been carried out on ivermectin/HCQ are panning out.

https://www.togethertrial.com/trial-specifications

Yes, but in several years it’ll be old news, so you and others currently pushing for vaccinations and masks/lockdowns will be conveniently forgotten by the majority but not by all. So spare me your highly selective sympathy.

Huh? What do vaccinations, masks and and limiting gatherings have to do with delaying cancer treatments?

People here were told to stay at home and save the NHS, which the papers told us was swamped with covid patients, while many nurses were so bored they made choreographed dancing videos of themselves which were widely seen - not on the BBC or other msm, of course.

Here, there was about a 6 week period at the start of the pandemic (March/April 2020) where elective medical care was closed down (in my area, anyways). Urgent and emergent care was available, but there were stories about some people taking too long to seek care. Then things opened up again, although I think people were still cautious about going in. When I had that discussion with Eric Newhill about utilization, I think the statistics showed that utilization took several months to return to more normal levels before the end of the year. Health care workers not directly involved in COVID care were underworked, while those caring for COVID patients were overwhelmed.

Was it really available? In the UK it largely wasn’t, I’m sure the US wasn’t that different. Yes, to celebs, politicians and selected others, but to the average man in the street - I doubt it.

Yeah. It was fine here. I had to use it myself, and I'm definitely the average man in the street. I even had elective surgery this summer during the last big COVID surge.

Ellis, so far you have not made any persuasive argument to convince me. You may sound like you know stuff, but I think not. It’s mainly just regurgitated officialdom. The words of Alexander O’Neal come to mind - “you’re a fake” - you probably can’t see that, but in a way, by largely spouting the official lies and nonsense, it’s what it makes you.

Of course. Because I don't credulously assume made up sh*t is true as long as it fits the CT/FE agenda. Which around here makes me a "troll" or a "liar".
 
If that is a true statement, what evidence do you have for making this one?



Doctors basically buggered off when the lockdowns began, and haven’t yet returned, the NHS is a shambles, people are dying at home etc,etc, - it’s a disgrace, and you must know it. Your friends death is sad, but no sadder than any other unnecessary death.

Yes - and it's lack of care for strokes, heart attacks, appendicitis, etc. This is what I've been saying about the often quoted excess death figures.To the extend they are valid, it's not covid killing people who would have lived, it's covid policies and their effects on the medical system that has resulted in death in the UK and US (probably other countries too).

Not only were offices and facilities closed for six months or more, but prospective patients were made too afraid to go out and seek care when it was available.

BTW, one of the issues with how medicine is practiced is that there is tremendous variation in practice patterns; meaning how a patient is treated. This is not just covid. It's all conditions. The course of treatment depends on many variables. One variable is simply the physicians speciality and where s/he went to medical school and who taught them. It gives insurance in the US a major headache (treatment approach 1 costs $X and results in heath improvement of Y, where as approach 2 costs $Z and delivers health improvement P, etc, etc). There have been studies coming out of the major universities for many years speaking to variation in medical practice patterns. Too many to cite. Look up/goodle, etc "impact of variations in medical practice patterns in the US".

Anyone saying otherwise is literally making stuff up (i.e.lying) about their knowledge.
 
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How can you possibly say that?

Obviously at a micro level people conspire to rob banks.

Conspiracies on a larger scale get stopped by the media, but not anymore - so conspirators have a free reign.

David
Conspiracies are stopped by several external players, not just the media - law enforcement being one such - but more often they are stopped by internal divisions among conspirators. The bigger the conspiracy, the more likely it is internal self-interests will turn the conspirators against each other and the conspiracy is stopped or exposed. That said, even bank robbers will turn on each other, especially when inevitably caught.

Two or three would be bank robbers conspiring makes sense. They need a get away driver, a guy to keep a gun pointed at everyone and a guy to grab the money. That is quite different than believing thousands of people conspired to commit 9/11, from the work crews that supposedly filled the buildings with dump trucks full of thermite, to the team that fired a missile at the Pentagon, to the crew and passengers on the airplanes that went into hiding and are faking being dead (and all of their families who playing along), all of the official investigators and so many more.

Same with Kennedy only to a somewhat smaller number of players. You can have a scenario that makes sense and is feasible (Oswald, a psycho who wanted to be a Soviet hero shot Kennedy and Ruby, who everyone knew harbored fantasies of being a tough guy gangster, shot Oswald to prove his misguided notion of manhood) - or you can imagine a vast and quite unnecessary conspiracy, all based on innuendo, selective filtering of facts, fantasy and outright lies.

Btw - in re Kennedy, if it was a conspiracy of criminal master minds and Oswald was just there to take the fall, why would the masterminds allow Oswald to be captured by police? Why take that risk? Why would they not wack him prior to capture? I would.That would be the efficient and safer approach. Why kill Oswald they way it happened? Then you (the conspiracy) would have Ruby in custody and potentially revealing the conspiracy to officials/media. It's really stupid what CTers believe. It's almost like they have no real world experience and haven't even thought through their kooky notions.
 
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Yes - and it's lack of care for strokes, heart attacks, appendicitis, etc. This is what I've been saying about the often quoted excess death figures.To the extend they are valid, it's not covid killing people who would have lived, it's covid policies and their effects on the medical system that has resulted in death in the UK and US (probably other countries too).
In the US, 72-79% of the excess deaths have been due to COVID, with 21-28% due to other causes (mostly cerebrovascular (43%), Alzheimers' (24%), Diabetes (13%)).

References:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778361
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
 
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