PMH Atwater, NDE Reseacher |586|

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PMH Atwater, NDE Reseacher |586|
by Alex Tsakiris | Mar 7 | Near-Death Experience
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PMH Atwater… near-death experiencer… near-death experience researcher… NDE after effects… NDEs in children.
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After I realised that wasn’t a parody it was excruciating but you handled that well. After Dr Shiva I was wondering if these were deep fakes or something they were both so bazar compared to your previous exemplary work.
 
After I realised that wasn’t a parody it was excruciating but you handled that well. After Dr Shiva I was wondering if these were deep fakes or something they were both so bazar compared to your previous exemplary work.
For what it’s worth, I listened to them both again and I think you handled them both brilliantly. I think I understand better what skeptics are really all about now, thank you.
 
This was a valuable interview with PMH Atwater revealing the need for validation to go from stories to evidence in this field. Maybe, if you offered to pay for someone else to extract the source data from her box(es) of data, we could get better evidence, not that PMH would agree to the pursuit.
 
After I realised that wasn’t a parody it was excruciating but you handled that well. After Dr Shiva I was wondering if these were deep fakes or something they were both so bazar compared to your previous exemplary work.

It's kind of funny, but I really had no idea that this interview was going to go this way until the day of the interview. it honestly was as I described in the show. I mean, she didn't show up for the interview on time and when we eventually did connect later in the day her excuses were just not very believable. and it's not like missing an interview is that big of a deal. people have scheduling conflicts or otherwise are not able to be there at the schedule time, but she just didn't seem truthful about it... and that's what really got me wondering. of course, looking back, it seems pretty obvious regarding the IQ score thing, but apparently no one else has caught on to this either. she has some pretty glowing reviews / endorsements from Top nde researchers. this is probably explainable by the fact that she's been around so long, but by the same token, maybe she's been around so long cuz no one has bothered to check her.
 
This was a valuable interview with PMH Atwater revealing the need for validation to go from stories to evidence in this field. Maybe, if you offered to pay for someone else to extract the source data from her box(es) of data, we could get better evidence, not that PMH would agree to the pursuit.

Do you really think she's sitting on a bunch of " IQ scores"?
 
maybe she's been around so long cuz no one has bothered to check her.

Btw, I'm guessing D.J. Kadagian still didn't get back to you regarding why he omitted ET reports in NDEs for his book Crossing Over...
 
As someone who administers IQ tests every day I can say that my IQ test (WAIS-IV) only goes up to 160 as the top score. The WAIS is the main test used in schools and government departments. Some people use the Stanford Binet but it is pretty rare. I don't understand how you could score someone at 180 and come across multiple people with that score. I also don't understand why people would forward that information in an interview without being specifically prompted.
 
Btw, I'm guessing D.J. Kadagian still didn't get back to you regarding why he omitted ET reports in NDEs for his book Crossing Over...
I don't remember. I hope you follow up with him on this and report back to us if you find out anything.
 
As someone who administers IQ tests every day I can say that my IQ test (WAIS-IV) only goes up to 160 as the top score. The WAIS is the main test used in schools and government departments. Some people use the Stanford Binet but it is pretty rare. I don't understand how you could score someone at 180 and come across multiple people with that score. I also don't understand why people would forward that information in an interview without being specifically prompted.

good stuff. thx.

My best guess is the pmh collected these accounts and thought she had identified a pattern (i.e. increased mental functioning among those who report having a NDE very early in life) so she cooked up some data to support what she was finding.

and this is the problem with fake data... makes it impossible to sort out the signal from the noise.
 
Just listened to the PMH interview. I don't get it. How can Dr Greyson say the book is so outstanding considering these absurd IQ statistics. It's so over the top and unrealistic every which way.
 
And in the Skeptiko interview beginning around 7:00 min mark, the story about 3 people who reportedly hadn't even heard the name Jesus but heard this name in NDEs... It also sounds fishy to me.

These three mutual strangers reportedly were so culturally removed from Christianity that they didn't even know Christianity or the Bible exists, yet they hear the name "Jesus" in their NDEs, and somehow they get in touch with PMH Atwater......

It sounds sketchy
 
And bearing in mind that there are millions of Christians (potential buyers of PMH's book) who are desperate to find buttresses for believing in their crumbling worldview

Just throwing that out there. I haven't read PMH's book, so I can't judge so much

I did try getting through a lecture on YouTube by her a few months ago though. She was talking to her adult audience as if they were kindergarten children. Could barely listen to even a quarter of it
 
And bearing in mind that there are millions of Christians (potential buyers of PMH's book) who are desperate to find buttresses for believing in their crumbling worldview
You must interact with a much different group of Christians than I do. Those I know a) ain't desperate and b) nothing at all seems to be crumbling. In fact, I'm getting the opposite sense of things. The emptiness/vacuousness of scientific materialism seems to be catalyzing an increasing interest in Christianity for a lot of young people.
 
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How can Dr Greyson say the book is so outstanding...

Glad you brought this up!

I mean, on one level we get it. Bruce Grayson and pim Van Lommel are probably inundated with people asking for book blurbs... and I'm sure their own publishers are encouraging them as well... so, we really can't expect them to carefully scrutinize everything they sign off on.

Then again, this process does create the possibility that something like this happens.
 
Do you really think she's sitting on a bunch of " IQ scores"?
D you feel that now she has lost all credibility? Is ther any evidence of deliberate fraud.? I'm remembering that
DR morris guy who wrote about childrens nde's and was later arrested for waterboarding his daughter to induce an nde which put a damper on the whole field for a while
 
I am glad Alex switched from cross examination to compassionate enquirer - when it became obvious this was a frail, sick and elderly person
She will be 86 this year and quiet sick by the sounds of it.
At least she accepted that she is essentially a collector of stories not a researcher.

But she needs to rewrite her publicity material

I don't know where the blame lies, but marketing hype seems to lead some authors astray- and then they believe their own publicity. Her publicity plays off her LHD, sometimes adds the prefix Dr and makes her sound like an academic
In her website she uses "Dr P. M. H. Atwater, L.H.D" and calls herself An international authority on near-death states and her publishers calls her "a distinguished researcher"

I note that her LHD come from honorary degrees - as per IANDS website :
https://www.iands.org/conferences/38/144-pmh-atwater-lhd.html
Dr. Atwater is "Dr." twice over by virtue of two honorary degrees bestowed by an International College in Quebec, Canada: a Doctor of Humane Letters (LHD) in 1992 and a PhD in therapeutic counseling in 2005. Also in 2005, she was recognized with the National Association of Transpersonal Hypnotherapists' Lifetime Achievement Award and with IANDS' Outstanding Service Award. Many NDErs have found Dr. Atwater's work to be a source of tremendous support in the aftermaths of their experiences.

Forgive my reference to wikipedia - but it notes that Kermit the frog was awarded a LHD for services to children by an English university.
and as per the convention with honorary degree Kermit does not refer to himself as Dr Kermit.
 
D you feel that now she has lost all credibility?

IDK... I think " scientific research " has to be held to a standard.

One thing I thought of after the interview...
-- pmh probably had the right conclusion, but probably faked the data to make it look more scientific.
-- Dr. Jason Abaluck at Yale definitely/ provably faked his conclusion, but probably had some real data.
Andy Paquette, Mask Science, Big Lie? |523| - Skeptiko
 
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