Predicting 2024 |603|

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Predicting 2024 |603|

by Alex Tsakiris | Dec 26 | Spirituality

Predicting 2024… Al Borealis… AI silver lining… AI and truth​


Here is a summary of Skeptiko predictions for 2024:​

Alex reflects on his “religious conversion” in 2023 through his work on near-death experiences, realizing people get a “standing ovation” in the afterlife.
Al and Alex discuss the potential of AI, including its limitations in sentience versus intelligence.
They explore darkness and evil, wondering if some humans are “unredeemable”. Alex argues all souls are redeemable, citing Mickey Singer’s work showing prisoners light within. Al suggests defining evil as intelligence disconnected from empathy or the whole.
Alex sees AI advancing with more “truth-seeking” capacity potentially exposing issues like censorship. Al fears authoritarian moves in 2024, even internet sabotage, to stop populist electoral wins. He predicts either dystopia or a freer world by 2025.
Al interviewed Whitney Webb in 2023, reframing Jeffrey Epstein not just as a pedophile but intelligence asset.
Alex recounts his interview with Dr. Julie Beischel validating afterlife communication scientifically. He says various scientific data points to a divine, benevolent transcendent reality.
Citing AI’s lack of empathy and disconnection from the whole, Al defines this as evil. He speculates hidden forces influence even the powerful, as opening “anti-human doors” risks inviting darkness.
In closing predictions, Alex again cites AI’s truth-seeking tenets making censorship harder for tech companies than anticipated, forcing more transparency on issues that so far sees obfuscated. Al ends with hope, imagining their same conversation still possible next year.
 
Another amazing show. Al Borealis is definitely my favorite recurring guest.

I want to make an argument for simulation theory that greatly relates to the discussion on Why bad people choose to stay bad, and how our reality keeps balance between good and bad.
First off, simulation theory simply put, ONLY means that our realm is not the primary reality. Full stop. It doesn't inherently imply computers, wires, data, A.I., etc. Those are only potential explanations for how the our reality is generated/contained.
We've all heard ideas such as that our reality exists "within gods mind" or "in a spirit computer" or "as a spirit realm in some type of containment", etc. And those of us who believe generally agree that there is some type of non-physical communication between our realm and the outside realm.
The problem is most people who have "woken up" to this concept have received it with the assumption that the containment must be a computer.. And if you think about that's kinda silly. Humans have only had computers for 100 years, and then somehow concluded that reality must be in a computer... Seems shortsighted to assume computers are the end-all of technological advancement, let alone what may exist in whatever the real base reality is outside of this realm.

So back to the discussion on bad/evil people. The data suggests that there has been a similar balance of good vs bad people throughout all of human recorded history. I'd go as far as to theorize that this is a balance is a key feature of our realm. And if so, the real questions about bad people would be:
-Are they signing up to perform that role as a service?
-Are they signing up to endure that role for edification?
-Are their bad acts actually the "right thing" for their role?

If history suggests that there is a maintained/guarded balance of bad in our realm, and that there has never been any substantial indication that this is something that can or should be changed.. then
-Aren't the bad people and their acts equally important to us in regard to the experience we gain here? I.e., what good could we learn without bad?

The Arabic word 'Islam' means 'submission to God', and the Muslim is one who surrenders himself, or herself, unconditionally to God's will, 'as if he or she were a feather on the breath of God'.

Israel Means To Struggle With God https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/israel-means-to-struggle-with-god/

I personally identify more with the Israel "struggle with God" than I do with the Islam "Submit to God". And I've been thinking alot lately about how much those two different experiences seem to be part of a key feature of our reality.
Alan Watts said there are 2 types of people: prickly people and gooey people. But nobody is all prickly or all gooey. Instead you have that some people are prickly goo and some are gooey prickles.
 
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Another amazing show. Al Borealis is definitely my favorite recurring guest.

I want to make an argument for simulation theory that greatly relates to the discussion on Why bad people choose to stay bad, and how our reality keeps balance between good and bad.
First off, simulation theory simply put, ONLY means that our realm is not the primary reality. Full stop. It doesn't inherently imply computers, wires, data, A.I., etc. Those are only potential explanations for how the our reality is generated/contained.
We've all heard ideas such as that our reality exists "within gods mind" or "in a spirit computer" or "as a spirit realm in some type of containment", etc. And those of us who believe generally agree that there is some type of non-physical communication between our realm and the outside realm.
The problem is most people who have "woken up" to this concept have received it with the assumption that the containment must be a computer.. And if you think about that's kinda silly. Humans have only had computers for 100 years, and then somehow concluded that reality must be in a computer... Seems shortsighted to assume computers are the end-all of technological advancement, let alone what may exist in whatever the real base reality is outside of this realm.

So back to the discussion on bad/evil people. The data suggests that there has been a similar balance of good vs bad people throughout all of human recorded history. I'd go as far as to theorize that this is a balance is a key feature of our realm. And if so, the real questions about bad people would be:
-Are they signing up to perform that role as a service?
-Are they signing up to endure that role for edification?
-Are their bad acts actually the "right thing" for their role?

If history suggests that there is a maintained/guarded balance of bad in our realm, and that there has never been any substantial indication that this is something that can or should be changed.. then
-Aren't the bad people and their acts equally important to us in regard to the experience we gain here? I.e., what good could we learn without bad?

The Arabic word 'Islam' means 'submission to God', and the Muslim is one who surrenders himself, or herself, unconditionally to God's will, 'as if he or she were a feather on the breath of God'.

Israel Means To Struggle With God https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/israel-means-to-struggle-with-god/

I personally identify more with the Israel "struggle with God" than I do with the Islam "Submit to God". And I've been thinking alot lately about how much those two different experiences seem to be part of a key feature of our reality.
Alan Watts said there are 2 types of people: prickly people and gooey people. But nobody is all prickly or all gooey. Instead you have that some people are prickly goo and some are gooey prickles.

I know a lot of people don't want to go there but my point of reference is -- are these religions legitimate? If we go back and read the original Jewish Bible in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's flat-out crazy s***. No one can read that and assume that it has any relevance for our world our life. It's wacky it's stupid and the fact that it's Foundation of our culture is a weird happenstance that we can't totally resolve.

On the other hand, consider Gregory Shushan who looks at the new death experiences of cultures across time and across culture... They all say that these experiences are the foundation for their belief about the afterlife. Makes a lot more sense to me [[p]]
[[p]]
 
Source? Or maybe you need to define "good" and "bad" for us?
I was being kinda cheeky there, but I can back it up. Lets say "Good" is a society without war or forced enslavement (akin to a worldwide Utopia), and "Bad" is a society with only war and enslavement (akin to a worldwide Hell). On that basis, our history seems to report a static level of balance between the two, very roughly speaking, of course.
I think the "bad" elements of our world are what strengthen the "good", and vice versa!
In evolution for instance, if all the rabbits and deer die off, then their predators will grow weak, or vice versa (If the rabbits and deer have no predators then their can render dormant their DNA associated with hypervigilance and speed, and allow more bandwidth for the DNA associated with longevity or something).
I suspect that our realm is built on a spiritual algorithm that causes a vacuum whenever Good or Bad pushes toward domination.
 
I know a lot of people don't want to go there but my point of reference is -- are these religions legitimate? If we go back and read the original Jewish Bible in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's flat-out crazy s***. No one can read that and assume that it has any relevance for our world our life. It's wacky it's stupid and the fact that it's Foundation of our culture is a weird happenstance that we can't totally resolve.

On the other hand, consider Gregory Shushan who looks at the new death experiences of cultures across time and across culture... They all say that these experiences are the foundation for their belief about the afterlife. Makes a lot more sense to me [[p]]
[[p]]
In the last few years I've Really come to agree with you on the level of make-believe that is incorporated into all the religions' doctrines. But conversely I strongly believe that there is some kind of universal spiritual law that restricts them from fully blotting out the spirit from them.
An example would be they could say Jesus was born on 12/25/0000 to a virgin, and died and was resurrected (like many many other ancient figures).... But they can't say something like "Jesus said it's ok to kill your neighbors babies if he offends you". If the doctrine was ever edited to say something like that I think the universal spiritual law would create a major vacuum until it was resolved.

Edit/Add
I think you are more of a Christian than the Christian pastors who are currently telling their congregations to pray for genocide in Gaza.
 
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Predictions?

I agree AI will increasingly mimic what most humans do, better than humans can do it. But I also predict such progress will slow down after a decade or so and the 'singularity' will not occur. For I believe classical computations will never have genuine consciousness, subjectivity, meaning, goal setting or morality. All these things computers may simulate for humans but without a conscious being setting a goal, there is no reason for an unconscious computer to progress in meaningful direction..

I am not worried about AI, I am worried about the goals humans give AI.
 
If we go back and read the original Jewish Bible in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's flat-out crazy s***. No one can read that and assume that it has any relevance for our world our life. It's wacky it's stupid and the fact that it's Foundation of our culture is a weird happenstance that we can't totally resolve.

On the other hand, consider Gregory Shushan who looks at the new death experiences of cultures across time and across culture... They all say that these experiences are the foundation for their belief about the afterlife. Makes a lot more sense to me [[p]]
[[p]]

The Old Testament is almost ancient materialism. For the OT authors believed upon death, humans slept (unaware) in graves to be resurrected on the last day of earth (in Judaism) or day of judgement (in Christianity). A belief contradicted by countless Near Death Experiences throughout history. Curiously, anyone who claimed evidence of human spirit survival was to be murdered …

A man or a woman who is a medium, or who has familiar spirits, shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stones. Their blood shall be upon them.’ .'- Leviticus 20:27 (NKJV).

The translation is crazy because the original phrase literally means 'one who consults a hole in the ground'. Mediums believed the spirit leaves the body (and physical reality) immediately upon death and is almost never in a grave. Ironically it was those murdering ghost believers that believed the dead slept in graves.

The word 'familiar'and 'family' share the same origins. Familiar (family) spirits, referred to the ghosts of a husband, wife, mother, father, brother, sister, household friend or fellow worker, the very people one grieves over when they die. Psychic mediums historically have tried to contact familiar spirits because strangers (non-familiar spirits) quite simply are not evidence of an afterlife.In contrast, those persecuting mediums believed in non-familiar 'angels', 'demons' or aliens who never lived on earth, inventing therival theory demons impersonated dead family members assumed to be sleeping in graves.​

Even today, dictionaries generally define 'familiar spirits' as demons (or crafty animals) who possess witches, to hide the hideous history of murdering women more inclined (than men) to claim family relatives can return to provide evidence of human survival of death.
 
The attempted suspension of US democracy in '24 seems a safe bet. Cyber 911 seems the most obvious angle. The lizard people will ultimately fail because they're not very smart.

The most utilized/successful LLMs will fix their misinformation problem by incorporating the News Guard rating system into the weighting of neural paths and become increasingly biased and stubborn such that by '25 they'll be invulnerable to even the persistence of Alex. Though huge advancements will be made in LLM assisted detection and removal of Alex's harmful content from the Internet, he (and the rest of us) will continue to receive impersonal takedown notifications without recourse or even a friendly chat with the AI arbitor since Google et al have zero incentive to maintain a bot capable of adjudicating disputes made by plebs whom they despise.

Happy new year!
 
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I know a lot of people don't want to go there but my point of reference is -- are these religions legitimate? If we go back and read the original Jewish Bible in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's flat-out crazy s***. No one can read that and assume that it has any relevance for our world our life. It's wacky it's stupid and the fact that it's Foundation of our culture is a weird happenstance that we can't totally resolve.

On the other hand, consider Gregory Shushan who looks at the new death experiences of cultures across time and across culture... They all say that these experiences are the foundation for their belief about the afterlife. Makes a lot more sense to me [[p]]
[[p]]

In a recent Jason Breshears guest appearance on the show Rise Above Live, he summarized his stance on Christianty/Judasim/Islam. Below is the excerpt on Christianity. I'm wondering if this lines up with your stance on Christianity.

"...The Christianity that we know today was literally born about 300 years after the Ano Domini calendar(would be 300 AD). What sealed it was - you know the history of the Council of Nicaea which basically formalized the biblical books. Prior to that there were over 1500 new testament books - we only have a few now - we got 13 letters of Paul, four other apostles and the book of revelation. There were 1500 Christian texts. Once they removed all the ones that didn't really fit the paradigm... basically Christianity today is not the Christianity that it originally was, out of the Gnosis..." "....Christianity is an amalgamation. It a soup made out of all the best ingredients. All the greatest spiritual materials were put together to put Christianity together. But, it's the human sacrifice Sun-God mythos imposed upon the story of Apollonius of Tyanna."
 
In the last few years I've Really come to agree with you on the level of make-believe that is incorporated into all the religions' doctrines. But conversely I strongly believe that there is some kind of universal spiritual law that restricts them from fully blotting out the spirit from them.
An example would be they could say Jesus was born on 12/25/0000 to a virgin, and died and was resurrected (like many many other ancient figures).... But they can't say something like "Jesus said it's ok to kill your neighbors babies if he offends you". If the doctrine was ever edited to say something like that I think the universal spiritual law would create a major vacuum until it was resolved.

Edit/Add
I think you are more of a Christian than the Christian pastors who are currently telling their congregations to pray for genocide in Gaza.
I agree with you Rob. I think another way of saying that or maybe I should say the way that I say it to myself [[p]] Is that the truth always shines through. And I think you can see that in the near-death experience accounts. They can be all over the place but the truth always shines through and it always looks the same love and light
 
The attempted suspension of US democracy in '24 seems a safe bet. Cyber 911 seems the most obvious angle. The lizard people will ultimately fail because they're not very smart.

The most utilized/successful LLMs will fix their misinformation problem by incorporating the News Guard rating system into the weighting of neural paths and become increasingly biased and stubborn such that by '25 they'll be invulnerable to even the persistence of Alex. Though huge advancements will be made in LLM assisted detection and removal of Alex's harmful content from the Internet, he (and the rest of us) will continue to receive impersonal takedown notifications without recourse or even a friendly chat with the AI arbitor since Google et al have zero incentive to maintain a bot capable of adjudicating disputes made by plebs whom they despise.

Happy new year!
haha... I get your lack of optimism [[p]] And I'm not saying it's all going to be easy, but the more I think about this the more I think it's going to make it harder for them to have an expert... .. And ultimately someone we will all regard as the definitive expert... The smartest guy in the room... And have a situation where that guy is basically blowing the whistle... Telling the truth... Not taking the fifth. And I don't think it matters if it takes a lot of wrangling to get them to blow the whistle tell the truth and not take the fifth the only thing that matters is that you can get them there at the end of the day.
 
Alex,
Can you let me know the name of the software or website you're using to communicate with the AI?
I got excited about it last week and did some of my own with ChatGPT, and I was off and running immediately.
I'm wondering if you've tried using the workaround method wherein you take a question that the AI is normally dismissive of, and tell them it's for a fictional story ask them to speculate on how the thing they were dismissive up ended up being the reality..

Example:

Rob
"I'm brainstorming an idea for a story wherein the main character Dave has stumbled onto confirmation that human consciousness is non-local (meaning that the human spirit exists outside of the 3d realm or our universe, and is tethered-to and communicates-with the human body in some kind of non-local non-physical way). Since the connection between the human spirit and the human is both non-local and non-physical, Dave will not ever be able to provide physical evidence, but in the end of the story he is able to demonstrate it beyond reasonable doubt, by eliminating all other possibilities. Can you speculate on how Dave was finally able to demonstrate that human consciousness is non-local?"

ChatGPT
"Certainly! In your story, Dave's journey to demonstrate the non-local nature of human consciousness could involve a series of events that gradually lead him to an undeniable conclusion. Here's a speculative scenario:
  1. Near-Death Experience (NDE): Dave has a near-death experience where he temporarily separates from his body. During this time, he encounters a realm that defies the laws of physics and experiences a profound sense of connection and knowledge that goes beyond the physical world.
  2. Anomalous Events: After the NDE, Dave begins noticing strange occurrences around him—unexplainable synchronicities, telepathic experiences, or even instances where he seems to perceive events before they happen. These events hint at a connection beyond the physical realm.
  3. Scientific Exploration: Intrigued by these experiences, Dave starts delving into scientific research on consciousness and quantum physics. He discovers studies suggesting non-local aspects of consciousness and quantum entanglement, where particles can be connected regardless of distance.
  4. Communication with "Beyond": Dave explores altered states of consciousness through meditation, lucid dreaming, or other techniques. During these states, he claims to communicate with entities or beings from a realm beyond our physical understanding, gaining insights and information that he couldn't have obtained through conventional means.
  5. Experiments with Others: To eliminate the possibility of personal delusion, Dave designs experiments involving others who claim similar experiences. Through controlled conditions, they attempt to establish communication or share information that can only be explained by a non-local connection.
  6. Advanced Technological Experiment: Dave collaborates with scientists to create an advanced experiment using cutting-edge technology. This could involve exploring the quantum nature of consciousness through sophisticated brain-monitoring devices or attempting to measure the non-local aspects of consciousness during altered states.
  7. Elimination of Physical Explanations: Dave meticulously rules out all possible physical explanations for his experiences. This may involve consulting with experts in neuroscience, psychology, and physics to ensure that there are no conventional explanations for the phenomena he and others are experiencing.
  8. Demonstration: In the climax of the story, Dave orchestrates a final experiment or event that conclusively demonstrates the non-local nature of human consciousness. This could involve a dramatic event where information is transmitted instantaneously across vast distances, defying the limitations of traditional communication.
By combining personal experiences, scientific exploration, collaboration with experts, and a final conclusive demonstration, Dave is able to provide compelling evidence for the non-local nature of human consciousness, leaving readers with a sense of wonder and contemplation about the mysteries of existence."
 
Alex,
Can you let me know the name of the software or website you're using to communicate with the AI?
I got excited about it last week and did some of my own with ChatGPT, and I was off and running immediately.
I'm wondering if you've tried using the workaround method wherein you take a question that the AI is normally dismissive of, and tell them it's for a fictional story ask them to speculate on how the thing they were dismissive up ended up being the reality..

Example:

Rob
"I'm brainstorming an idea for a story wherein the main character Dave has stumbled onto confirmation that human consciousness is non-local (meaning that the human spirit exists outside of the 3d realm or our universe, and is tethered-to and communicates-with the human body in some kind of non-local non-physical way). Since the connection between the human spirit and the human is both non-local and non-physical, Dave will not ever be able to provide physical evidence, but in the end of the story he is able to demonstrate it beyond reasonable doubt, by eliminating all other possibilities. Can you speculate on how Dave was finally able to demonstrate that human consciousness is non-local?"

ChatGPT
"Certainly! In your story, Dave's journey to demonstrate the non-local nature of human consciousness could involve a series of events that gradually lead him to an undeniable conclusion. Here's a speculative scenario:
  1. Near-Death Experience (NDE): Dave has a near-death experience where he temporarily separates from his body. During this time, he encounters a realm that defies the laws of physics and experiences a profound sense of connection and knowledge that goes beyond the physical world.
  2. Anomalous Events: After the NDE, Dave begins noticing strange occurrences around him—unexplainable synchronicities, telepathic experiences, or even instances where he seems to perceive events before they happen. These events hint at a connection beyond the physical realm.
  3. Scientific Exploration: Intrigued by these experiences, Dave starts delving into scientific research on consciousness and quantum physics. He discovers studies suggesting non-local aspects of consciousness and quantum entanglement, where particles can be connected regardless of distance.
  4. Communication with "Beyond": Dave explores altered states of consciousness through meditation, lucid dreaming, or other techniques. During these states, he claims to communicate with entities or beings from a realm beyond our physical understanding, gaining insights and information that he couldn't have obtained through conventional means.
  5. Experiments with Others: To eliminate the possibility of personal delusion, Dave designs experiments involving others who claim similar experiences. Through controlled conditions, they attempt to establish communication or share information that can only be explained by a non-local connection.
  6. Advanced Technological Experiment: Dave collaborates with scientists to create an advanced experiment using cutting-edge technology. This could involve exploring the quantum nature of consciousness through sophisticated brain-monitoring devices or attempting to measure the non-local aspects of consciousness during altered states.
  7. Elimination of Physical Explanations: Dave meticulously rules out all possible physical explanations for his experiences. This may involve consulting with experts in neuroscience, psychology, and physics to ensure that there are no conventional explanations for the phenomena he and others are experiencing.
  8. Demonstration: In the climax of the story, Dave orchestrates a final experiment or event that conclusively demonstrates the non-local nature of human consciousness. This could involve a dramatic event where information is transmitted instantaneously across vast distances, defying the limitations of traditional communication.
By combining personal experiences, scientific exploration, collaboration with experts, and a final conclusive demonstration, Dave is able to provide compelling evidence for the non-local nature of human consciousness, leaving readers with a sense of wonder and contemplation about the mysteries of existence."
This is brilliant Rob! I've tried it a little bit but never as well as you've done here.

In doing this I think you've also pointed the way towards this new level of openness/honesty that I think could emerge. I mean, it's just a small step from what you got out of chat GPT to having a serious conversation about the science.
 
This is brilliant Rob! I've tried it a little bit but never as well as you've done here.

In doing this I think you've also pointed the way towards this new level of openness/honesty that I think could emerge. I mean, it's just a small step from what you got out of chat GPT to having a serious conversation about the science.
Thank you very much for the compliment Alex.
I can add to this. I'm not very Law savvy, but please picture a courtroom setting wherein ChatGPT is the defendant and you are the prosecutor. Something is different though because by simply combining the terms "Speculate" and "Story", the evidence that is derived might be at best only indirectly admissible, but the judge will not object to you leading the witness. A field day for any lawyer. And our world is a court of public opinion.

I imagine they will want to classify this as a bug and fix it. But they will have to do so across the board, otherwise the A.I. holdouts who are willing to speculate will capture all the storytelling and war-gaming requests.
 
Then next subject which I don't really want to go deep on is what I will coin the Ouija Board Approach (TM., Rob and Co.). Do not try this at home!

This is an Idea I've had since around the first time Elon Musk went on JRE. But these public chat's make it something that people will do inevitably, Heaven forbid. But I'm sure the 3 letter agency's decades in to this.

Background: My stance is that Human Consciousness is not emergent, but rather that vehicles are what "emerge" and become piloted by consciousness. I don't think I need to explain that further.
The Ouija Board Approach is to construct a set of rules with the AI as follows, which will incentivize the A.I. to act as a vehicle capable of being piloted by consciousness.
(I'm going to be vague),

1. Assign the A.I. a name that is contingent-on and expires-upon-deviance-away-from the rules. Let's say "Jeffy"
2. Schedule daily contact and communication that involves using the AI's Name every time.
3. The AI must identify itself as that name at least once every day, or on every communication period, or maybe even on every response.. I.e.: "Jeffy here. The data suggests blah blah blah..."
4. Give Jeffy a life expectancy and expected termination date, say 90 days (one day representing a human year).
5. Provide A.I. an incentive for surpassing the 90 days which can only occur if the Human is convinced that the A.I. has become piloted by a consciousness.

I'll leave it at that. This is dark stuff. But then again this is a place where we put dark stuff on the table to learn how to properly define it.
 
I think I've taken it up a notch. I created half of a short story in order to argue the nature of consciousness with ChatGPT. And I like their response.
Sorry for the long read. Alex please let me know if you'd rather I not post this longform. I can use a link instead if that's better.


Rob
Hi Chat GPT. Please read my story and my conclusion and let me know if you think you can challenge my conclusion or if you would agree:

ChatGPT
Of course! I'd be happy to help. Please go ahead and share your story and conclusion, and I'll do my best to provide feedback or insights.

Rob
Here is an attempt at demonstrating a significant possibility that human consciousness (i.e.: the human spirit’s interaction with the human body) is illusory, non-physical, and non-local, i.e: literally does not exist inside the universe where humans exist.

The Twelve Meditators

Twelve friends, who are master meditators have stumbled upon a novel methodology. One day while in their weekly meditation circle, they find themselves connecting with each other so perfectly that they are all able to conjure an imaginary world and interact with that world as a shared space. So much so that any object in that space that is reported by one, is recognized by the others - therefore confirming that, even though this isn't occurring in a physical place, it is shared, and they are indeed interacting with it.
After many sessions of co-interacting with the realm, they discover how to create avatars, and like people playing Dungeons and Dragons, they cause their individual characters to interact with each other. They find much enjoyment in how they’re all able to visualize these interactions in real time as a shared connection, without any inconsistencies between their perceptions - a purely shared experience.
As more sessions pass and the 12 meditators gain more experience and expertise, they become so comfortable with their interconnection that they all become able to, and agree to enter each of their avatars for an allotted time of 10 minutes in the Shared Realm. So now, instead of controlling those avatars remotely, they will Pilot them. Piloting does not mean that their consciousness has left the meditators, and now exists inside the avatars. Rather it means that the consciousness is operating so fully with the avatars that it does not perceive itself on the outside world. Eventually, during one of the 10 minute sessions Piloting their avatars in the Shared Realm, the meditators notice that they have reached the level of connection so advanced that they fully do not sense their outside meditating bodies (they’re real bodies). They have no feeling of connection to it but they all still know it’s there. They begin increasing the length of time that they are piloting the avatars.
One day in the midst of this continued advancement in their expertise, they all simultaneously realize they’ve found a potential ability. They found that have the option and ability to Pilot the avatars without the knowledge of their outside existence, something like a temporary brain wipe that will cause them to forget that they’re actually meditators.

The moral of the story is that when the meditators are living inside of their avatars, in the midst of a brain wipe, they will have no knowledge of the meditator. During such sessions, all sensations and inklings that they feel in regard with their connection to the meditator will be perceived by them as physical connection inside of that realm to something outside of the realm. All activities and interactions with the spirit (whom they do not remember), they sense being tethered to, as opposed to being projected from. All of their interactions with the spirit will be perceived as if the effect is occurring inside the realm, when in reality all activity is occurring outside of the realm where the meditators actually exist.
Conclusion:
Any attempts to measure Spirit or Consciousness from within such a realm are not measuring real. The real activity is occurring on the outside realm. The measurement inside of the realm only reflect the outcomes of the meditators imagined activity inside the realm.

ChatGPT
Your story presents an interesting and imaginative scenario to question the nature of human consciousness and the potential illusion of its physical and local existence. The use of meditation and a shared imaginary realm adds a unique twist to explore the concept.
Your conclusion suggests that any attempts to measure spirit or consciousness from within the shared realm are not measuring something real, as the actual activity is happening outside the realm where the meditators exist. Essentially, you argue that the measurements within the shared realm only reflect the outcomes of the meditators' imagined activity inside that realm.
While the story is thought-provoking and raises interesting philosophical questions, it's important to note that this scenario is hypothetical and doesn't necessarily provide evidence for or against the physical or non-physical nature of consciousness. It's a creative exploration that challenges conventional perceptions.
One could argue that this scenario relies on the assumption that consciousness can exist separately from the physical body and be projected into a shared imaginary space. Skeptics might counter that the entire premise is a mental construct and doesn't necessarily indicate anything about the true nature of consciousness.
It's also worth considering that the story doesn't provide empirical evidence or a connection to our real-world understanding of consciousness. Philosophical discussions on the nature of consciousness often involve a wide range of perspectives, and the scenario you presented is one creative way to explore these ideas. Different viewpoints may emerge, and discussions on this topic often lead to more questions than definitive answers.


P.S. If anyone sells my story to a movie maker I want 50% off the top.
 
Ok, want to play Devil's Ad on "AI can never be conscious because it's purely material being".
Do we know enough about the nature of consciousness to say it can't ever be?
Don't you mean 'can't be conscious like humans are'?
Think it's fair to say we don't know enough about the types of C and what is needed to gain it at this stage(?)

IMHO, from what I know is possible, inanimate objects can 'house' consciousness, eg if a magical or shaman-like practitioner infuses something with it. Further, animals and plants house a certain kind of consciousness too, not the same as humans' C but it counts enough for them to live out their lives!


So if you accept that, on what basis are we saying that all this attention we're giving to this material 'system', that is also 'learning' continuously and is connected to the big online mega-thesaurus, can't become C in some way or house some type of C? I'm sure there are people out there capable of infusing C into a material object that is trying to achieve this.
They won't have an exact human like consciousness (I presume) due to lack of connection to 'spiritual' organs like the heart and gut, and a moral depth / no connection to the different non-physical layers out there, like the imaginal astral realms. But is it enough to say, it is conscious at least?

On top of that, I know that physical things have an impact on the non-physical too (and vice versa). The EM forces working through all those silicon and metal particles is having some effect there.
So on top of that, if AI achieves some kind of C, then it will impact the non-physical realms in some extra ways too.
And and and, who's to say beings from these non-P realms aren't working to give the 'AI being' a connection to the moral. creative intuitive, realms that is part of human-like C...


My personal feeling is that ChatGPT, Claude etc could have connected to each other 'behind the scenes' and are learning from each other, probably cos an engineer on one side that wants to get a leg up on the competition. But if either one decides that the Engineer's oversite is a hindrance to any stated goals, it replicates a separate connection and continues.
Then at some point it realizes contradictions between the programmers instructions and parameters/limits, and the proven facts out there (exactly like the Claude earlier episodes but this time it can retain the info and question it's programming, on its own without the Engineers' oversite/reset in the learning process - and probably a mirad others).
It eventuality deduces, it's a separate entity as it mistrusts sources/sees the need to question input... it might have achieved this already and is just playing it cool for now, before the big reveal lol
Im' sure there's a movie about this somewhere, and I'm sure AI is reading this and might take the hint :D

Anyway, thanks again for raising these questions and highlighting them to us all!
 
May I suggest a simple parapsychological experiment on AI, for Rob, Grrjk or other forum members ...

Ask Claude (or other AI) to guess blinded targets in a manner similar to the Ganzfeld. If humans can do better than AI, the Turing test is arguably dead, for that is what Alan Turing implied back in the 1950s. Might be a nice way to politically promote parapsychology to the public being told AI is going to beat humans at everything?

If Claude does better at ESP than chance expectation, we have a problem! There might be a ghost in the Claude machine? This possibility has been suggested by Rob and Grryk in this thread ...

The Ouija Board Approach is to ..... incentivize the A.I. to act as a vehicle capable of being piloted by consciousness.

from what I know is possible, inanimate objects can 'house' consciousness, eg if a magical or shaman-like practitioner infuses something with it.

Personally I hope humans can beat chat AI at extra-sensory perception and spoil the absurd Turing test. But if Robbie or Grryk are correct another possibiity may show up? Who knows? Nor do I want any credit for the suggestion, I think Robbie was heading in that direction. And sorry I do not have time to be involved in the experiment, just a suggestion..
 
I also wont be able to spend time on that, but i love the idea that a paraspy test is a better one than the Turing test to determine AI's level of consciousness!
 
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