Richard Cox, Being Right About No Virus |573|

[Nelson]

PS and from a practical PR perspective, shaming normies can work by calling them fools. But alternative thinkers tend to be higher in the disagreeableness trait. Calling them fools will tend to just make them angry. So I don't get what you're trying to accomplish with those who are doubting the existence of viruses

 

[Alex]

If we were to use the 911 analogy further, we'd have a cartel of monopolistic structural engineers who were creating many buildings worldwide that were seemingly falling down of their own accord.

I don't get your analogy. what I'm saying is that the idea that building 7, a 47 story steel framed building, collapsed at Free Fall speed into its own footprint as a result of a few couch fires in a corner of the building is ridiculous / foolish idea. I feel pretty confident in saying that even though I'm not an architect or structural engineer.

I don't think the people who doubt viruses are foolish...

I disagree. for example, anyone who watches the Russell Brand video that I posted and walks away saying, "yeah but none of those Shenanigans they're doing engineering the virus are real because viruses can't ever cause illness" is foolish.

...They've understandably become suspicious of the medical establishment which has demonstrably been untrustworthy. Then they look at the info they can check with their own eyes and try to puzzle things together on a more abstract level. But they're not convinced that there are viruses, and loose ends in their logic are filled in by fixating on the fact that the medical establishment is untrustworthy.

This is the part that's interesting. and I'm glad you're persisting with this thread so we can explore " why people believe weird things" and how even RFK Jr can't seem to get clarity on this.

I see much of the fixation on the untrustworthiness of the medical establishment (or NASA in the case of flat earthers) as an emotional, instinctual response. Danger aversion. So it makes sense from an evolutionary psychology perspective.

Yeah, I think the fixation thing is certainly in play. and I think there's some social values / virtue signaling stuff going on here as well. we all want to live as if " everyone's opinion matters" and that's probably a great way for a tribe to thrive around the campfire. but it may not work for a highly technological, scientifically Advanced culture.

Now, it's getting really interesting... because now I'm starting to sound like the technocratic social Engineers I'm opposing

 

[Alex]

PS and from a practical PR perspective, shaming normies can work by calling them fools. But alternative thinkers tend to be higher in the disagreeableness trait. Calling them fools will tend to just make them angry. So I don't get what you're trying to accomplish with those who are doubting the existence of viruses

I'm not trying to " accomplish " anything in the way that you're talking about. I'm trying to provide clarity. as mentioned, I think it's significant that RFK Jr couldn't get clarity regarding distancing himself from Andrew Kaufman.

 

[Nelson]

Yeah, I think the fixation thing is certainly in play. and I think there's some social values / virtue signaling stuff going on here as well. we all want to live as if " everyone's opinion matters" and that's probably a great way for a tribe to thrive around the campfire. but it may not work for a highly technological, scientifically Advanced culture.

I agree

Now, it's getting really interesting... because now I'm starting to sound like the technocratic social Engineers I'm opposing

Haha :p

 

[Nelson]

I don't get your analogy. what I'm saying is that the idea that building 7, a 47 story steel framed building, collapsed at Free Fall speed into its own footprint as a result of a few couch fires in a corner of the building is ridiculous / foolish idea. I feel pretty confident in saying that even though I'm not an architect or structural engineer.

What I'm saying is that if the covid topic were to be more analogous to 911, one would imagine that the profession of structural engineering had fallen into such disrepute and catastrophic failures that buildings WOULD be just falling down because the structural engineers and construction industry were working hand in hand to create buildings designed to fall apart, in order to then repair them, build new ones, etc. as part of their corrupt grift.

Likewise with the doctors and pharma industry. They work hand in hand doing much the same thing. Then they come in to "fix" the problems they themselves create. I personally lost faith in most of the medical establishment/pharma industry long ago. Apart from a few things such as emergency care / surgery, it's mainly a scam.

That's what's going on in the back of my mind when I'm thinking about the no viruses position, which still doesn't completely convince me there are definitely viruses: If the medical establishment has demonstrably lied so much recently, what if there are lies from previous decades that then get treated as fact, even by genuine doctors, because they've been taught that that's the way things are, but they're really building an intellectual house on sand.

 

[Nelson]

anyone who watches the Russell Brand video that I posted and walks away saying, "yeah but none of those Shenanigans they're doing engineering the virus are real because viruses can't ever cause illness" is foolish.

Something that struck me about the video was that the technicians reportedly analysing and engineering covid viruses were doing it in urban areas and admittedly had no objective to use the experiments to help people. So I then thought:
(1) these people are acting in bad faith,
- therefore:
(2) is it really so implausible that they're also lying about their field of work, that the whole thing is basically a scam.

 

[Nelson]

I still think viruses exist. But I'm giving you my thought process, why I still have a tiny sliver of doubt

 

[Nelson]

This sliver of doubt is somewhat visceral for me too. It's not so cool and distanced but rather an emotion of aversion and fear associated with it.

Now if one encountered someone who'd really had a horrific time at the hands of the medical establishment/pharma industry, or had lost a loved one because of it, one could expect an emotion orders of magnitude stronger...

So that's one reason I think empathy is important here. Most of the people aren't fools. But they might have deep-seated emotional triggers on certain issues that hinder them from making cool, collected judgments on certain topics.

 

[Nelson]

From memory, RFK Jr has had a troubled personal history with illness too right. So maybe there's a trigger for him there too somewhere

 

[Alex]

This sliver of doubt is somewhat visceral for me too. It's not so cool and distanced but rather an emotion of aversion and fear associated with it.

Now if one encountered someone who'd really had a horrific time at the hands of the medical establishment/pharma industry, or had lost a loved one because of it, one could expect an emotion orders of magnitude stronger...

So that's one reason I think empathy is important here. Most of the people aren't fools. But they might have deep-seated emotional triggers on certain issues that hinder them from making cool, collected judgments on certain topics.

you're describing the discernment process... which pops up all over the place... New Age channeling... Cults... Fundamentalist religious beliefs... and on and on. there's a reality within all these situations... and empathy is important... but what we really want is clarity/truth. do you think scientologists don't have boatloads of evidence to support their beliefs?

This is even more clear-cut when it comes to science.

"no rabies no virus" is a psyop designed to manipulate you in exactly the way that it seems to be manipulating you. it's causing you to doubt logic / reason.


So while empathy is nice.. and empathy is important... clarity/truth

 

[Robbedigital]

My current stance is
100% convinced Earth is round. If it's not round, then it's 100% a simulation. But a flat earth simulation still wouldn't make sense if adhering to law of conservation of energy. Unless.... (scary music) ... It's a prison planet and NASA's working with the Planetary Prison Guards!!!!! AHHHHHH!! jk/doubt it.

In my opinion, simulation theory could technically include a scenario wherein we exist on a physical "Truman Show" planet inside of a physical universe. Granted this doesn't amount to a simulated universe necessarily.

Marvel has placed images of this in many of their recent movies but they're calling it "teleportation". I think this is misdirection.
https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Universal_Neural_Teleportation_Network

Call it stupid, ok. But take for instance the technological valley that separates the first world tech in 2023 from that of an uncontacted village in 2023. Now (if you can) extrapolate the idea that there would be advanced species who are that far advanced to us. Then (if you're a pro) extrapolate to a species that far advanced to that species. Those guys would have zero difficulty constructing a planet sized Truman Show. And if you were in it you wouldn't know. And if one country found out they were in it, they would definitely form a coalition to keep it a secret from the rest of the world, for power of course. Enjoy

 

[Richard Cox]

Hello, if anyone’s still around on this thread: I’ve completed a report / small book assessing the efficacy of the COVID mandates. It was originally written as a report for submission to an inquiry in my own country (the Isle of Man), but I’ve now created a version that’s applicable to any state.

It covers a lot of the discussion we’ve had here on iatrogenic deaths, touches on viral origins, and looks at mask, lockdown and vaccine safety and efficacy.

It’s freely available for download from my website:

https://www.deepstateconsciousness.com/writing

 

[Silence]

Your conclusion seems to be an OpEd castigating any sort of centralized use of power in favor of bottom up, naturally occurring human activity to address any and all issues that might emerge. Hardly seems to be a scientific, objective, or evidence-based argument but rather a philosophical position statement.

Look, I think all kinds of mistakes were made throughout COVID. However, implementing a binary pendulum switch to never using a top down approach in any situation seems utterly foolhardy.

 

[Richard Cox]

Your conclusion seems to be an OpEd castigating any sort of centralized use of power in favor of bottom up, naturally occurring human activity to address any and all issues that might emerge. Hardly seems to be a scientific, objective, or evidence-based argument but rather a philosophical position statement.

Look, I think all kinds of mistakes were made throughout COVID. However, implementing a binary pendulum switch to never using a top down approach in any situation seems utterly foolhardy.

It is a philosophical conclusion - and also an economic one. The essay is a split between an analysis of data and philosophical arguments.

There may be times when a better outcome is achieved through simply forcing others to bend to your will. You’ll forgive me however, if I remain cynical.

 

[Silence]

There may be times when a better outcome is achieved through simply forcing others to bend to your will.

I just think its dangerous to be dogmatic and your position came off a bit dogmatically to me.

Life is full of situations where you have to bend yourself to wills other than your own. I think of these sovereign citizen videos of misguided folks trying to say they are "travelling" while refusing to carry or present a valid driver's license.

Again, I am not insensitive to the criticisms of governmental handling of COVID. It was a mess. I just think we should be careful about baby being thrown out with the bathwater.

 

[Robbedigital]

Hello, if anyone’s still around on this thread: I’ve completed a report / small book assessing the efficacy of the COVID mandates. It was originally written as a report for submission to an inquiry in my own country (the Isle of Man), but I’ve now created a version that’s applicable to any state.

It covers a lot of the discussion we’ve had here on iatrogenic deaths, touches on viral origins, and looks at mask, lockdown and vaccine safety and efficacy.

It’s freely available for download from my website:

https://www.deepstateconsciousness.com/writing

Nice work! I skimmed it. I like the placement of the story at the end about Maos kill-off-all-the-sparrows campaign. However I bet there’s a better chance that the sparrow killing was actually intended to solve their grain-loss problem than was the global Covid response intended to end covid.

And call me a history revisionist… but if anyone believes China only had 5,000 total covid deaths, they’re not going speak the same language when debating what are the best methods of responding to outbreaks..

 

[Richard Cox]

I just think its dangerous to be dogmatic and your position came off a bit dogmatically to me.

Life is full of situations where you have to bend yourself to wills other than your own. I think of these sovereign citizen videos of misguided folks trying to say they are "travelling" while refusing to carry or present a valid driver's license.

Again, I am not insensitive to the criticisms of governmental handling of COVID. It was a mess. I just think we should be careful about baby being thrown out with the bathwater.

Perhaps we would find agreement in acknowledging that the future is uncertain, we don’t know what challenges lie ahead, and it is unwise therefore to wholly remove options from the table just because they may have gone wrong in this current situation.

What I would assert however, is that the use of coercive power is not just one more option amongst many. It is a strategy that shuts down a pluralistic response, severely limiting our options. For this reason I am fundamentally opposed to it. Whatever future situation arises, I will claim right now that the employment of coercion will lead to worse outcomes than a more consensual approach.

Am I being dogmatic about this? I am in the sense that I think it is a truth firmly established - a foundational truth. I’m willing to entertain criticism, but as I emphasise in the document: I think the onus should be on the person advocating for coercion to justify its benefits, not on those arguing for liberty.

 

[Robbedigital]

I could tee up a really good Devils' Devils Advocate on this subject which spills over to a lot of other subjects.

Alex loves to make the point (I forget the wording) that we're all spiritual beings and we all occasionally have sleepless nights and we all have morals and consciousness.

I've made the point with Alex privately and in passing on the forum that I'm of the belief that in terms of incarnation, we humans may be here on different missions during different incarnations. Like how can a soul progress if they never made it through the experience of being a horrible person.
In this light we can illuminate the possibility that people who do evil works (deceit, harm, destruction, etc) are providing a service without which good works would have no merit.
And i think we need to encapuslate and proccess this in order to really step up to level 3 on the subject of why a scam on the level of the Covid deception, or even the "trump-is-the-new-jesus" deception - could be part of a moral foundation for the people performing them..

How could anyone argue that Satanists are not living/acting on morals?

Would Jesus' story be complete without Thomas the doubter? or Judas the betrayer? or without him reaching the ulitmate connection with humanity to state "why hast thou forsaken me?"

 

[Richard Cox]

Would Jesus' story be complete without Thomas the doubter? or Judas the betrayer? or without him reaching the ulitmate connection with humanity to state "why hast thou forsaken me?"

The Problem of Evil—in Westeros

Lord Walder Frey
Certainly committed a most grievous crime
When slaughtering the Starks at the Red Wedding

George Martin however
Committed no crime at all
In imagining this scene onto the page

Like Rumi said of God,
He painted the breadth of his psyche
Showing both good and evil
Revealing his talent
And our nature

I’m sure Rob and Catelyn
Would forgive him
If only they knew

 

[Robbedigital]

The Problem of Evil—in Westeros
Like Rumi said of God,
He painted the breadth of his psyche
Showing both good and evil
Revealing his talent
And our nature

When I was growing up in church the parable of The Prodigal Son always made me feel lesser/lacking in relation to the good son who didn't fall into bad living. But then the story pulled on my heart strings (like a hollywood movie or a modern pop-country song) when the fallen sun returned and was received happily by the Father.
I'm coming to believe quite the opposite, that my own fall should be my badge of honor - that my spirit endured through seeing myself fall-to and carry through countless periods of wanting to hit the 'reset-button'.

In this light, I can look at a Rothschild, or a Klause Schuab, or an Anthony Fauci, or a Jeffery Epstein, Maria Abromovich, and see myself bow down, and spiritual hats-off to them for allowing their spirit to endure depths mine surely could not endure.
Before entertaining this thought my assumption was that if i saw those people in the afterlife i would pity them. but now/today I'm not so sure.