Rob and Trish Macgregor, Mystical Underground |558|

I think that maybe you're being a bit too harsh. Like I said earlier, you guys were arguing past each other ( if you know what I mean ). In other words, it's not like you were right and they were wrong. It's that both sides were looking at the topic from two separate perspectives, each of which were valid, but irrelevant to the points the other side was making. At least that's what it looks like to me — but maybe I'm wrong too.

I think it was Trish and Rob who were doing the "talking past", by trying to change the subject from simple sea level measurements to polar bears and experiences of flooding. It was clear Trish and Rob didn't want to stay with the sea level measurement topic, and I think I know why...
 
That's impressive. I can imagine as a free-thinking person going through the "education education", that you have a valuable insider's perspective on this important subject. And I wasn't underestimating its importance. As you may know, for Plato it was central in his philosophy.

And because pedagogy is so important, is also the reason it's been to such a large extent co-opted. Then the normie types who go through this training are especially brainwashed and don't have much in the way of real knowledge to fall back on.

Do you think that's fair to say?
Yes I do. The titans of education, John Dewey, Jean Piaget, and others, are either smooth-talking Communists or people with an abiding hatred of nature. This is why I prefer the work of education professionals when their work is tied to a measurable practical objective, like R.J. Sternberg, Sonnentag, and Ackerman.
 
I think it was Trish and Rob who were doing the "talking past", by trying to change the subject from simple sea level measurements to polar bears and experiences of flooding. It was clear Trish and Rob didn't want to stay with the sea level measurement topic, and I think I know why...
If I had to look at it from their perspective, they may have reacted the way they did for the same reason I react the way I do to certain skeptical arguments against psi. For instance, someone could say, "there is no evidence of any kind of mechanism by which psi can be achieved." I would likely respond that "lacking an explanation doesn't rule out evidence of the phenomenon. For example," and then I would provide an example from my personal experience.

The difference to that hypothetical reaction and the MacGregor's reaction to Alex is that my reaction includes evidence for psi. Their reaction did not include evidence for climate change. A local flood, even if repeated annually for a few years, does not prove climate change. One sound example of psi does disprove the position that psi is impossible.

It is possible the MacGregor's believe that their local flooding and inaccurate knowledge regarding polar bears does constitute evidence of climate change. In that case, their reluctance to engage Alex was disappointing. In any debate, if your evidence is questioned, it is time to re-examine the evidence in light of the criticism. If the analysis of the evidence is the problem, then the analysis can be debated. The MacGregors refused to consider that their "evidence" was either wrong, or it was wrong to use that evidence in the context of debating climate change.

The Amazing Randi once told a mutual acquaintance that I must have been tricking him somehow into believing I had psi ability. He then ran down a list of ways I could have done this. However, my friend knew me and the facts too well to accept any of Randi's hypotheses. If he hadn't known me or wasn't personally acquainted with the relevant facts, Randi's arguments would have been much more compelling. An irony is that my friend has always been a skeptic of psi. He happened to become a witness to several events through our friendship, and wanted Randi to explain his observations. Randi couldn't give him a credible possibility but only because my friend knew the details firsthand. If he hadn't, he likely would have accepted Randi's explanations as valid.

The MacGregors believe they have the evidence because they have been told that, for instance, local flooding is evidence of climate change and they have personally witnessed local flooding. One might as well say that blood on the sidewalk is evidence of murder. It might be evidence related to a specific murder, or it could be evidence that someone wearing shorts fell off his skateboard and skinned his knee.
 
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One of the greatest things about the recent revival of public intellectual debates (which seemingly came in on the same bandwagon as longform podcasting) was the implementation of the "Steel-man" at the beginning of each debate. For anyone not aware, this is when the debate is started with each of the two participants doing their best performance of a favorable representation of their opponent's position related to the topic of debate. And what this does is (1) shows that they already understand their opponent's position, (2) shows that they understand their opponents position well enough to agree to skip past the entry-level arguments. (3) shows that they agree that their opponent is worthy and therefore either/both sides stand to learn from the experience.

In the realm of fair debate, Alex has no obligation to do Rob and Trish favors formulating their debate for them. He gave them plenty of demonstration and opportunity to admit that the arguments they were bringing to the table we're sloppy and emotion based. Regardless whether right or wrong, they came off as not serious about fact finding. In my opinion this was displayed in bright color.

Basically in my opinion Alex was saying to Rob and Trish something like "Shoot, for all we know, you might be right, but we'll never get there if you can't represent your position in a respectable way."
 
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I think that's a really good point to ponder. Obviously, some things can be considered at various stages to be more or less evolved than at other stages, but in any slice of time, without any frame of reference to what the future or past looks like, I think that what you say is perfectly reasonable — most of the time anyway.

Thanks bud. I just think this thought is glossed over a lot in this "evolution vs. creation" controversy. What if every form, in the now, is just as evolved as it could be? I know, it is equally stupid to think that a consciousness was picking and creating particular creatures one at a time. Nevertheless, it is fascinating why there is so much disparity. Once you get a good grasp on the "Transhumanist" agenda, I think all of this comes to light.
 
Yes. A sign of psychological warfare, rather than evidence-based debate

I found it hilarious, and it was a two on one with those polar bear loving, "gentle", woke writers, right? This is why I love Alex. He isn't afraid to be himself even if it gave him more notoriety. Oddly enough, when he pushes the truth forward, he is getting a notoriety and a backing that will far exceed what any opportunist could imagine. I love this this guy and what he has created.
 
Thanks bud. I just think this thought is glossed over a lot in this "evolution vs. creation" controversy ...

I don't think that the evolution versus creation controversy needs to be so binary. I think it's entirely possible for both variables to be part of the overall picture. After which one would be more interesting?
  1. A universe where everything has already been created by "the creator" and is therefore never original or new?
  2. Or — A universe that is capable of independently creating novel phenomena — not pre-programmed in — that would surprise even the gods.
  3. Which God(s) would be more interesting to have that conversation with?
    1. God the control freak.
    2. God who recognizes you as a sentient being capable of asking your own questions and making creations of your own?
Personally I'm going with option number 2.
 
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I think it was Trish and Rob who were doing the "talking past", by trying to change the subject from simple sea level measurements to polar bears and experiences of flooding. It was clear Trish and Rob didn't want to stay with the sea level measurement topic, and I think I know why...

Hey — don't tell me you don't believe the polar bears either !

This makes me sad even though I know I could easily be her next meal.

 
Hey — don't tell me you don't believe the polar bears either !

This makes me sad even though I know I could easily be her next meal.


Are you serious?
What does this have to do with searching for the truth?
It's made in an extremely propagandistic way.
They show ONE emaciated polarbear and imply with violin music that it's because of global warming.....
Look at the comment section too. It's dominated by extremely emotional reactions, people claiming they're crying, feelings of guilt...
I don't care how it makes you or these people feel. If anything it detracts from your credibility
 
Hey — don't tell me you don't believe the polar bears either !

Btw, wtf kind of statement is "don't tell me you don't believe the polar bears either!"?....

So enlighten us, what things have the polar bears been saying to you.... They have been "talking" to you have they? So you're basically in the same category of deceivers as Rob and Trish.....
 
Btw, wtf kind of statement is "don't tell me you don't believe the polar bears either!"?....

So enlighten us, what things have the polar bears been saying to you.... They have been "talking" to you have they? So you're basically in the same category of deceivers as Rob and Trish.....

I was being facetious. I also think you're right about the video's potential as a promotional tool for global warming activists. At the same time, I still find it sad. The post was more to stir-up discussion than to promote my personal viewpoint. Personally, I don't know enough about the subject to know what the case is. I've heard lots of conflicting reports about the arctic ice and polar bears.

Is NASA in on the conspiracy too?

 
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At around the 48-49 minute mark, Alex mentions that Kenneth Ring had several NDE'ers that mentioned visions of the world ending in 1988. I have not come across these before. Does anyone have any other information or links to such information? I was able to find this so far:

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc798876/m2/1/high_res_d/vol7-no1-4.pdf


https://the-formula.org/near-death-experiences-that-predict-the-end-of-the-world/

……………..

Excerpted from Heading Toward Omega
Chapter 8, Planetary Visions of Near-Death Experiencers
By Kenneth Ring
First published December 17, 1985

“One of the bits of knowledge that John Audette [who later became a cofounder of IANDS and its first executive director] imparted to me late one evening struck me quite forcibly. He told me that he had met a few people whom Moody had first interviewed, who all independently seemed to have had a vision of the planet’s future in conjunction with their NDE. That in itself wasn’t so astonishing, of course, but what John went on to tell me was of more than passing interest. All of them, he said, had had essentially the same vision and that it was one of widespread and cataclysmic destruction. Furthermore, they all appeared to agree on the year in which these events were to take place. The year was 1988.”

 
https://the-formula.org/near-death-experiences-that-predict-the-end-of-the-world/

……………..

Excerpted from Heading Toward Omega
Chapter 8, Planetary Visions of Near-Death Experiencers

By Kenneth Ring
First published December 17, 1985

“One of the bits of knowledge that John Audette [who later became a cofounder of IANDS and its first executive director] imparted to me late one evening struck me quite forcibly. He told me that he had met a few people whom Moody had first interviewed, who all independently seemed to have had a vision of the planet’s future in conjunction with their NDE. That in itself wasn’t so astonishing, of course, but what John went on to tell me was of more than passing interest. All of them, he said, had had essentially the same vision and that it was one of widespread and cataclysmic destruction. Furthermore, they all appeared to agree on the year in which these events were to take place. The year was 1988.”

Thank You Alex. I hate seeing these type of things becuz it makes me question it. Recently read a story of a person who had an NDE and observed a nearby building as she was “flying” over it , while out of body and the roof looked a certain way and she went to investigate it after recovering , and the roof was totally different than she “saw” in her NDE. Recently also read some stories from a book that heavily “cherry picked” certain NDE’s to represent a certain viewpoint on abortion. And although these cases were “Cherry picked,” they still represented a few of the overall cases …

then u have Ian mccormick and his NDE . Or Howard storm .
Looking at Gregory Shushans work… etc …
Even stories of seeing living people in NDE’s .
Now compare those things with veridical NDE’s. Or people learning someone died that they saw in their NDE but didn’t know were dead .

i don’t know how to reconcile these contradictions !!!
 
Thank You Alex. I hate seeing these type of things becuz it makes me question it. Recently read a story of a person who had an NDE and observed a nearby building as she was “flying” over it , while out of body and the roof looked a certain way and she went to investigate it after recovering , and the roof was totally different than she “saw” in her NDE. Recently also read some stories from a book that heavily “cherry picked” certain NDE’s to represent a certain viewpoint on abortion. And although these cases were “Cherry picked,” they still represented a few of the overall cases …

then u have Ian mccormick and his NDE . Or Howard storm .
Looking at Gregory Shushans work… etc …
Even stories of seeing living people in NDE’s .
Now compare those things with veridical NDE’s. Or people learning someone died that they saw in their NDE but didn’t know were dead .

i don’t know how to reconcile these contradictions !!!

Just because some NDEs seem to correlate with real world events doesn't mean that explaining them as someone's "spirit" or "consciousness" floating out of their body to witness the event, is the real case. Experiments where this can be confirmed in no uncertain terms have been done, with zero positive results. Yet unconfirmed, but seemingly genuine high strangeness cases persist. So something unusual is going on, but the question remains — What exactly? I've often pointed out the parallels of this situation to that of the UFO mystery, and suggest that perhaps the two phenomena are connected.
 
I don't think that the evolution versus creation controversy needs to be so binary. I think it's entirely possible for both variables to be part of the overall picture. After which one would be more interesting?
  1. A universe where everything has already been created by "the creator" and is therefore never original or new?
  2. Or — A universe that is capable of independently creating novel phenomena — not pre-programmed in — that would surprise even the gods.
  3. Which God(s) would be more interesting to have that conversation with?
    1. God the control freak.
    2. God who recognizes you as a sentient being capable of asking your own questions and making creations of your own?
Personally I'm going with option number 2.

Bro, this is a trippy thought experiment. I think this is much more accurate than Nick Bostrom's stupid simulation theory. I think that option one is ultimately the materialists perspective. I agree that option two is the most likely, as that would give reason for the God or gods to create humans. I think that option three is a variable with option two that was unanticipated.
 
Thank You Alex. I hate seeing these type of things becuz it makes me question it. Recently read a story of a person who had an NDE and observed a nearby building as she was “flying” over it , while out of body and the roof looked a certain way and she went to investigate it after recovering , and the roof was totally different than she “saw” in her NDE. Recently also read some stories from a book that heavily “cherry picked” certain NDE’s to represent a certain viewpoint on abortion. And although these cases were “Cherry picked,” they still represented a few of the overall cases …

then u have Ian mccormick and his NDE . Or Howard storm .
Looking at Gregory Shushans work… etc …
Even stories of seeing living people in NDE’s .
Now compare those things with veridical NDE’s. Or people learning someone died that they saw in their NDE but didn’t know were dead .

i don’t know how to reconcile these contradictions !!!

I don't either. makes you wonder if we are supposed to / have to resolve them.

to certain extent, it seems like we have to because we have to decide how we're going to live our life. so since we have to make a decision I like to rely on a combination of logic reason experience and just gut instincts. on the logic reason statistics front I think there's good evidence that nde is highly suggestive of a goodness that permeates the extended realm... That alone is a pretty huge leap for a lot of us :)
 
At around the 48-49 minute mark, Alex mentions that Kenneth Ring had several NDE'ers that mentioned visions of the world ending in 1988. I have not come across these before. Does anyone have any other information or links to such information? I was able to find this so far:

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc798876/m2/1/high_res_d/vol7-no1-4.pdf
I've written about that exact subject in a few of my papers. The point was that you can easily go astray if you don't have an independent means to validate information provided by purported psychics.
 
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