Sara and Jack Gorman, Deniers Denying Deniers |515|

#41
I'm sorry, but none of that answers my question. It just makes it seem like the answer is "random conspiracy bullshit and paranoia, yada yada yada". How can Frontline be "taking the science at face value" and "ignoramuses" at the same time?
To further simplify,
"Taking the science at face value" amounts to using the masks and "vaccine" as tools until proven best to do otherwise.

The real ignoramuses are those who somehow still aren't able to see it necessary to use ivermectin as a tool until proven best to do otherwise.

Ignoramus
....Latin, literally ‘we do not know’ (in legal use ‘we take no notice of it’)
 
#42
Amazing Post!


I read this differently and your explanation helped my to formulate it.
Did you see the recent South Park where Chinese military are supervising the script writing ? This is more what I picture with these type of people. They are aware of an invisible authority who is always hovering behind them and listening to make sure they don't stray from the approved dogma.


I'm about to put in my payment info, but do you know if they will ask for a prescription after you give payment?
I don't live in America and so don't know the system, I'm afraid. I would be hesitant in any case because one never knows that it's all as much a scam as the price itself. PM me if you want to discuss this further.
 
#43
I'm tempted to say there may be a point to be had in the 'Rob D' statement. On the other hand the logistics of a really organized conspiracy - kind of a web work of command control
Something to the effect of massive organized group, governmental that monitors (CIA?)
Seems undoable.

The self monitoring approach. The fear that a comment could be taken, in context or not definately could be at work. Self editor for fear of witch hunters , they will be coming , sniffing around with there hounds. Yes could be. Agree or silence. These are your choices.

Do as your told all good children and there will lots of milk and cookies for you.
 
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#44
It is that simple. Tell me how it's not. Have you performed the analysis? Has anyone in the sky is falling camp?



I'm in the US and I'm in the data (not YouTube and not MSM) and your excess deaths figure is BS, as are your ICU beds figures. I work in healthcare insurance for one of the big companies. I am acutely aware of hospital bed utilization trends. You are wrong. Period.

Prove that covid measures stopped anything. You cannot. I am not going to argue this further with a known troll who specialists in repeating left wing talking points.
I just want to go on record as being the guy with a broken foot that never went to the doctor. Fuck, that was hard.!
I don't get the impression that it's anywhere near that simple, but it does sound like something someone with half a brain would come up with.



You've been lucky, then. I'm in the US, and we have had hundreds of thousands of excess deaths - that's hundreds of thousands above and beyond the people who were going to die anyways. Our mortality rate jumped by 16% last year (which is huge and unprecedented until you go back to the 1918 influenza pandemic), and it increased the most among 25 to 45 year olds. And that was with at least a half-assed attempt to curb COVID. Now there's no attempt in my state, and ICUs and hospitals are filled to near capacity in my area (they weren't before), so elective surgeries are being cancelled. I was lucky - I needed reconstructive repair on my foot and I just snuck in under the wire. We're getting a small taste of what full-blown COVID would have looked like, so it would take stupidity, not courage, to claim that this is better.
Ha Ha man!
An iconic pair of people, methinks. A curious blend of old-fashioned conservatism and present-day virtue-signalling liberalism -- one might almost think of iron hands in velvet gloves -- informed mainly by what appears to me as a felt need to perform according to the prevalent zeitgeist amongst their ilk. They came across as so naïve, so trusting in whatever their confirmation bias is telling them. Sara in particular projects the archetypical image of a person with little self-awareness of her own sympathy with the totalitarian trend in rigid orthodoxy. She sent shivers down my spine with her justification for preventing discussion amongst the unwashed plebs.

Oh yes, folks. Only we academic types have the nouse (and more importantly the phDs) that make us qualified and able to preach down to you because you are so dense and obdurate. It doesn't matter that our qualifications aren't in areas, such as climate science, that we know little about. We know what's true, and this Sunday, when you attend our church, we will sermonise you about that because it has been delivered on tablets of stone from on high.

I downloaded the kindle sampler and noted one of the mentions in the acknowledgements section as being of Michael Shermer (I assume the Michael Shermer we all know and love) -- if so, 'nuff said -- he's another "Karen" who's a tad more of an iron hand than a velvet glove compared to Sara, and just as inclined to retreat into the protective arms of parroted orthodoxy when challenged. That's the thing about orthodoxy: one doesn't have to know a thing; even in the face of cognitive dissonance, when one can't effectively counter different opinions, it's always there to back one up.

I was staggered that Jack Gorman apparently didn't know how social media is routinely stifling free speech on issues it deems beyond the pale. Like someone has already said, he seems to live in a bubble. He should venture out into less calm waters and see what's being said on other platforms, then at least he'd be aware how and why many other people think differently than he does -- and that some at least of their arguments aren't entirely without merit.

I've made a few allusions to religion, and that's because I think this is the new religion: of pious believers in orthodox science (more accurately, scientism) who can use borrowed authority to browbeat heretics mercilessly. Now it's beating with eyebrows, but how long before the iron emerges from the velvet? Actually, strike that: it's already emerged in the Covid arena with lockdowns, vaccination passports and coercive means of "encouraging" people to get jabbed, quite contrary to the Nuremberg Code.

I've personally lived a pretty solitary life for around 5 years and rarely go out, perhaps once a month or so, mainly to do shopping for goods I can't get delivered to my home address. While out, I have voluntarily observed the ridiculous and ever morphing rules fastidiously -- not because I for a moment believe them, more because I can't be arsed to provoke any negative reactions. Life's too short, and it's only a couple of hours a month, after all. But few are in my situation and would have risked encountering difficulties with their employers had they not been vaccinated.

And I worry about them. In a couple of years, will some of my nearest and dearest suffer from delayed reactions worse than Covid? The simple answer is that we can't be sure yet -- though there is some evidence that data collection for negative outcomes reveals only a fraction of the real number of cases, which include sudden deaths within hours of being injected. In ordinary circumstances (normal cycles of vaccine development and testing lasting up to 10 years), only a few reports of death would be sufficient to halt experimental testing. Many think there's evidence that we have surpassed this amount by orders of magnitude already.

And everybody, including Jack Gorman, seems to be studiously avoiding the mounting evidence for the effectiveness of ivermectin prophylaxis and treatment. He only mentioned hydroxychloroquine, I noticed. Was that because he is blissfully unaware of ivermectin, or has he heard of it and dismissed it out of hand? Whatever, whilst I have to decline doubtless well-meaning appeals to be vaccinated, nobody is offering the alternative -- ivermectin treatment; indeed, the evidence is being systematically suppressed and one can't get it for love nor money unless one is slightly subversive and willing to buy it in preparations intended for animals such as horses.

If you want to buy pills, go search for them on the web, where profiteers are currently charging an arm and a leg ($115 for only 10 pills in the US) for what is one of the cheapest and least harmful proven anti-viral agents available. No profit in it for big pharma, so it's getting the bum's rush. And they're suppressing the evidence because if there were a widely-acknowledged treatment, then they could not have legally enrolled millions in their experimental gene therapy exercise.

I hope Jack and Sara know this: the "vaccination" isn't really such: it's experimental tinkering with genetic material (mRNA) that in the past has proven fatal for animals when they've been re-exposed to relevant viruses. No matter: big pharma has vaccinated itself against any lawsuits over negative outcomes, so they couldn't give a toss about it because they're making piles of money. Many people who get vaccinated are unaware what they're signing up for, and so can't really give true informed consent. So much for the Nuremberg Code.

Jack and Sara, you probably think you mean well and that at bottom you're decent people, but try to see how you're coming across: as educated ignoramuses who can't see their own prejudices and predilections. I think your performance was, to put it bluntly, nauseatingly complacent and smug.
This is brilliance! The entire quote needs to be quoted and posted on every mask mandate sign! Also, when we look at this modern "evolution" of tyranny, we need to recognize "virtue signaling" is the absolute cue. Granted, from time immemorial, this kind of poser bullshit has probably always been the precursor to absolute tyranny.

What is the poser bullshit formula: 1. You are an instrument of the state 2. What you do and who you are is a risk to others 3. Do as we say to alleviate that risk.

These mother fuckers don't understand that not all of us are masochistic bitches! Stand true!
 
#45
I had to come back one more time, here. Nothing is more subversive to freedom than these lucky, virtue signaling people, just like good ol' Sara and Jack. Daddy paid for her to write a book, and he doesn't even understand the medical tyranny going on in this world. Certainly, he admitted he doesn't know shit about censorship on social media. Granted, he also paid for her medical schooling. The dude is a good father, for sure! This is not my point of contention, but rather the fact that these so called "good common people" go right along with this New World Order shit without question. I don't even think they are capable of questioning it!

Certainly, they have a wonderful home in a nice neighborhood. How many times do you think that they have visited the food bank? Are these the kind of people that you want voting for rulers, let alone determining what happens to your life....to your body....and what is injected into it? To me, it is hilarious how the government pushed this enormous agenda of "my body my choice" when it came to abortions, but, on the other hand, used aborted fetuses to help develop vaccines. Now, it is your body, our choice to do whatever we want with it. Not only is this the philosophy of vaccine mandates, it is the philosophy of war.

For the longest time, I didn't believe in God. In this kind of environment, I have realized that God is real, and people need to quit trying to be God. God is real in a way that is hard to understand, because one would think......why so much evil if there is a God? I was sickened by this explanation: God created Evil so that you have free will. That is a half ass explanation that doesn't explain anything.

In reality, God did not create any evil at all, but gave the power of his independence and creativity to us, and set us free from Him to see if we could recognize who He is.
 

Alex

Administrator
#46
these so called "good common people" go right along with this New World Order shit
wow... great point.

then again, this get stuff get complicated because we're all complicit to some degree. we're all "going along" with a system we've used to secure a lot of advantages for ourselves. but since I'm not lining up to give my shit to the mexican gov because we stole cali a hundred yrs ago, I probably ought STFU.
 
#47
I had to come back one more time, here. Nothing is more subversive to freedom than these lucky, virtue signaling people, just like good ol' Sara and Jack. Daddy paid for her to write a book, and he doesn't even understand the medical tyranny going on in this world. Certainly, he admitted he doesn't know shit about censorship on social media. Granted, he also paid for her medical schooling. The dude is a good father, for sure! This is not my point of contention, but rather the fact that these so called "good common people" go right along with this New World Order shit without question. I don't even think they are capable of questioning it!

Certainly, they have a wonderful home in a nice neighborhood. How many times do you think that they have visited the food bank? Are these the kind of people that you want voting for rulers, let alone determining what happens to your life....to your body....and what is injected into it? To me, it is hilarious how the government pushed this enormous agenda of "my body my choice" when it came to abortions, but, on the other hand, used aborted fetuses to help develop vaccines. Now, it is your body, our choice to do whatever we want with it. Not only is this the philosophy of vaccine mandates, it is the philosophy of war.

For the longest time, I didn't believe in God. In this kind of environment, I have realized that God is real, and people need to quit trying to be God. God is real in a way that is hard to understand, because one would think......why so much evil if there is a God? I was sickened by this explanation: God created Evil so that you have free will. That is a half ass explanation that doesn't explain anything.

In reality, God did not create any evil at all, but gave the power of his independence and creativity to us, and set us free from Him to see if we could recognize who He is.
Its hardly possable to learn something if others are doing it for you. If God , All That Is, stepped in every time we were going to burn our fingers on the stove (however nice that'd be) I fail to see how we would ever learn anything at all. We choose this , we know we choose it, and learn we will.
I sometimes want to string my cat up and strangle the turd - not a pretty picture , and I certainly can not to blame God for for rancor.

I have on occasion supplied spiritual commentary to secular conversation. Another explination. Let me tell you friends the response is over the top harsh negativity in response. We live in a secular climate, no surprises there. I personally enjoy the fight, and I can see my brothers here do as well. In any case we can see from this latest test interview the arguments are weak, they really don't even know the science.
 
#48
Debating Alex is back! Woohoo! Loved this one though I do wish the guests had been better prepared so things could have played out further. Would it have been possible to provide these guests with any greater advance knowledge of the research you intended to cite in order to eliminate discussion terminating reactions such as "I haven't read that before" and "I didn't prepare for this topic"?
 
#49
In reality, God did not create any evil at all, but gave the power of his independence and creativity to us, and set us free from Him to see if we could recognize who He is.
I never got a satisfactory answer either so I had to invent one and I'm curious about the conclusion you have come to here. I don't see a lot of emphasis on recognizing God in any of the common NDE themes. How did you arrive there? I guess I've concluded that life is kind of like a gym and we use various machines to focus on specific areas. This helps me to explain why bad things happen to good people and in that model I see evil as akin to a resistance setting (eg. incline on a treadmill). In this way life is a process by which we are able to become "stronger" or develop a greater capacity for compassion, patience, love, etc. - all common themes of the NDE I use as a window into the underlying reality. How does your model tie back to the NDE?
 

Alex

Administrator
#50
Debating Alex is back! Woohoo! Loved this one though I do wish the guests had been better prepared so things could have played out further. Would it have been possible to provide these guests with any greater advance knowledge of the research you intended to cite in order to eliminate discussion terminating reactions such as "I haven't read that before" and "I didn't prepare for this topic"?
come on, did you really fall for that head fake? these people are putting themselves forward as experts... they have phds... they've written a book published by oxford university press on this topic. where to accept "they don't have that data at their fingertips"?

Let's just have a good laugh and move on.

wait a minute, let me go check my email because maybe jack send me the studies now that he's had a chance to look... yep, still nothing.
 
#51
come on, did you really fall for that head fake? these people are putting themselves forward as experts... they have phds... they've written a book published by oxford university press on this topic. where to accept "they don't have that data at their fingertips"?
I find academics to be a profoundly credulous and naiive bunch (possibly owing to affluence higher ed attracts and approval seeking behavior of the straight A student) so i dont discount the possibility of them being retarded in that way.
 
#52
Ah. Very good. A convo with the enemy - Ivy League government aligned elitists, interested in top down control of us, for our own good because they know better.

The enemy is often so very banal.
Well, the good part was the interview was cut SHORT. WTH is wrong with these people? It just goes to prove ANY nit can write a book. Oh, I'm sorry was I supposed to be NICE with people who throw out their "education" like a cheap suit to cover up their inability to RESEARCH!? Or because "dad" was about? No sorry, you people are dangerous. Stupid & dangerous. It's people like these 2 that get people killed for being STUPID. Now go put on your mask & go to bed! Pull the covers up over your head too. Watch for those monsters under the bed & closet. The rest of us know real monsters aren't there, they roam around with us (some write books!). idiots.
 
#53
come on, did you really fall for that head fake? these people are putting themselves forward as experts... they have phds... they've written a book published by oxford university press on this topic. where to accept "they don't have that data at their fingertips"?

Let's just have a good laugh and move on.

wait a minute, let me go check my email because maybe jack send me the studies now that he's had a chance to look... yep, still nothing.
************
Did you verify their "degrees"? wth. You know Alex, I was wondering if they were liars or just stupid? I'd prefer stupid because we have enough liars that are dangerous. But THEN, I realized stupid can be just as bad as a liar. Both will lead you into the "boxcar". (trust me it will be fun, we won't hurt you, want some CANDY!?).
 
#54
************
Did you verify their "degrees"? wth. You know Alex, I was wondering if they were liars or just stupid? I'd prefer stupid because we have enough liars that are dangerous. But THEN, I realized stupid can be just as bad as a liar. Both will lead you into the "boxcar". (trust me it will be fun, we won't hurt you, want some CANDY!?).
Naive, rather than liars or stupid, is how they came off to me. And if that makes them dangerous then what are we to do about all the people that read their book and found it credible? No they are a species of garden variety overeducated and underexperienced human with thousands more champing at the bit to take their place because capacity for critical thought is nothing but a liability in academia. At the same time these two deserve much more contempt than an inlaw who watches too much TV and I thoroughly enjoyed Alex blowing their minds, just would have relished it more if they couldn't claim ignorance and wiggle out of the headlock :)
 
#55
Naive, rather than liars or stupid, is how they came off to me. And if that makes them dangerous then what are we to do about all the people that read their book and found it credible? No they are a species of garden variety overeducated and underexperienced human with thousands more champing at the bit to take their place because capacity for critical thought is nothing but a liability in academia. At the same time these two deserve much more contempt than an inlaw who watches too much TV and I thoroughly enjoyed Alex blowing their minds, just would have relished it more if they couldn't claim ignorance and wiggle out of the headlock :)
****
That was the funniest comment I've read this week! Ha. Too bad it was all true!
 
#56
What really 'grinds my gears' is the arrogance to which these guests have no insight. They do not appreciate that they could be wrong or that there could be different viewpoints with merit. They feel they are being compassionate to the 'uneducated' by performing some kind of outreach where they will show them the error of their thinking. Their position seems based on what is accepted as a majority consensus rather than a careful consideration of the data. I see this all the time at the moment down in Australia. As a psychologist myself, I find the judgement inherent in their views particularly abhorrent. These guests should be more sensitive to the line between propaganda and public health policy information. Disinformation on both sides of a debate can cost lives.
 
#58
This episode motivated me to finally sign up. This was not an even match, guests had no chance. I can't help think that they actually were prepared, and not being able to cite any sources at all might be their pre-planned strategy, even though a horrible one. It's beyond painful, beyond sad. They are so nonscientific that Alex doesn't even make any effort to tear them apart, he just let's them make fools of themselves. Their words do his job for him. If not, and they actually roll like this, then......wow.
 
#59
This episode motivated me to finally sign up. This was not an even match, guests had no chance. I can't help think that they actually were prepared, and not being able to cite any sources at all might be their pre-planned strategy, even though a horrible one. It's beyond painful, beyond sad. They are so nonscientific that Alex doesn't even make any effort to tear them apart, he just let's them make fools of themselves. Their words do his job for him. If not, and they actually roll like this, then......wow.
thx for the reality check... that's how I experienced it.

... and I do think their "lack of preparation" was paper thin as excuses go.
 
#60
thx for the reality check... that's how I experienced it.

... and I do think their "lack of preparation" was paper thin as excuses go.
They are nice people who have good intentions. I am living the reality of Covid, and I think that very few look into the actual solutions. Also, I think the actual solutions are few and far between. Aside from Andreas Kalcker, most people are simply full of shit, whether they are doctors or not. We are all going to die sooner or later, so fuck it, just be honest in the face of bullshit. Sara and Jack are the type of people that allow deep state agendas to continue without knowing it, but they are not doing it maliciously, as far as I can tell. When Babylon has its dicks so far up so many asses that they cannot see otherwise, how else can you judge them? If anything brings me to "Christ Consciousness," it is this realization.
 
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