Summer is Coming

#45
You are arguing for science in a forum dominated by people who do not believe in/understand science - keep your expectations low.
I’ve never talked to or heard a person who doesn’t believe climate change could be contributed to by humans.

Your extrapolation that ‘disagreeing with solutions = lack of understanding’ is silly.

The people you would have solve climate change are the same people who want six years olds to be contemplating genital removal.
 
#46
I think that's a dangerous conflation. I've never heard of actual scientists agreeing with this recent spate of "there are no genders".
I have heard of many people follow climate change denial the same way they disagreed with the science of cancer from smoking.
1. Climate change doesn't exist (There's no such thing as cancer from smoking)
2. There's no evidence that Climate Change is happening (There's no connection between smoking and cancer)
3. Humans don't change the climate (Cancer occurs in nature)
4. Climate change is inevitable (Cancer happens all the time, why do anything)
When all the time we could have intervened.
 
#47
I think that's a dangerous conflation. I've never heard of actual scientists agreeing with this recent spate of "there are no genders".
I have heard of many people follow climate change denial the same way they disagreed with the science of cancer from smoking.
1. Climate change doesn't exist (There's no such thing as cancer from smoking)
2. There's no evidence that Climate Change is happening (There's no connection between smoking and cancer)
3. Humans don't change the climate (Cancer occurs in nature)
4. Climate change is inevitable (Cancer happens all the time, why do anything)
When all the time we could have intervened.
Very well put, Jack.
I read the Seattle times article

How about this for a general agreement moving forward:

1. I won't argue as if good science hasn't sufficiently demonstrated that humans need to be focusing a large percent of global product on solving reducing the effects of human caused climate change. (and will likewise encourage others who believe as I do)

If..

2. You won't argue as if the politicians and corporations can be trusted solve it rather than bolster it into a never ending problem. (and will likewise encourage others who believe as you do)
 
#48
I don't think ANYONE can be trusted. I believe in evidence first.
The whole idea of TRUST BUT show evidence is the most important thing.
The moment we sit there and EXPECT government/corporations/world leaders etc to do the work without any transparency is when we abdicate the hard part of freedom to others, and I don't EVER recommend doing it.
Look I GET the suspicion that no one is telling us what we should know, but only what they want us to hear.
That's why I believe in full transparency. That's the focus of a social democracy. Elect officials that are BEHOLDEN to the people, not their wealthy donors, and not unaccountable three-letter agencies.
What I won't do is run down the rabbit hole that has sadly swallowed up Alex lately which is-
Because they have shown to have an agenda, they ALWAYS have an agenda.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and if we constantly suggest that EVERYTHING is a Psy-Op by one person or another we completely destroy any opportunity to overhaul the system and let it get worse.
J
 
#49
I don't think ANYONE can be trusted. I believe in evidence first.
The whole idea of TRUST BUT show evidence is the most important thing.
The moment we sit there and EXPECT government/corporations/world leaders etc to do the work without any transparency is when we abdicate the hard part of freedom to others, and I don't EVER recommend doing it.
Look I GET the suspicion that no one is telling us what we should know, but only what they want us to hear.
That's why I believe in full transparency. That's the focus of a social democracy. Elect officials that are BEHOLDEN to the people, not their wealthy donors, and not unaccountable three-letter agencies.
What I won't do is run down the rabbit hole that has sadly swallowed up Alex lately which is-
Because they have shown to have an agenda, they ALWAYS have an agenda.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and if we constantly suggest that EVERYTHING is a Psy-Op by one person or another we completely destroy any opportunity to overhaul the system and let it get worse.
J
Honestly, I never assumed that you trust them.
My concern is that we tend to argue-as-if the opposite of my two examples above were true, which leads nowhere.
I saw good faith in your previous response and decided to run with it.
The offer stands.
 
#50
I am a good faith person. I want solutions.
My question back to you is... if we don't force politicians and private industries to work towards minimizing and fixing this problem, how will it get solved? I already recycle and compost.
 
#51
I am a good faith person. I want solutions.
My question back to you is... if we don't force politicians and private industries to work towards minimizing and fixing this problem, how will it get solved? I already recycle and compost.
I would argue it needs to be conceptualized differently.

We "forced" politicians and corporations support LGBTQ, and they're turning it into a corporate social credit score with no contingent to improve the real problem which was gay and transgender health, bully risk, and suicides.

They only have the hammer of exploitation and every problem we give them is a nail.

I think the REAL issue is that we've allowed ourselves to be convinced we disagree on the solutions because we confuse the solutions with the politics..

I don't think we disagree.
 
#52
I think the chief purpose of modern society is distraction.
Distract us from wealth inequality- the billionaires pay nothing in taxes, but have no problem having us at our throats about basic human rights for LGBT etc..
We want folks focused on racial issues when genetically speaking race doesn't exist. MLK would be ashamed at how much we focus on the colour of someone's skin as opposed to their character.
Go back and look at the beginning of feminist issues in England it was criticism of capitalism and how it was undermining the poor, but in America that gets changed into Patriarchy. Another great way to distract from a system that's broken- blame masculinity and men.

Again, I'm interested in holding everyone accountable, and that means making sure solutions are forthcoming.
There's a reason why Iceland jailed their banksters during the last recession. Because they held them accountable.
That's when a good social democracy works. And what it needs. Citizens who actively work towards solutions using the social democratic methods available to them.
If you have a better solution, I'm always ears.
 
#53
I’ve never talked to or heard a person who doesn’t believe climate change could be contributed to by humans.

Your extrapolation that ‘disagreeing with solutions = lack of understanding’ is silly.

The people you would have solve climate change are the same people who want six years olds to be contemplating genital removal.
They are also the same ones that want six years olds and pregnant women to take an experimental vaccine that they do not need because, six year olds and child bearing age women are not going to die from covid infection. There is now sufficient data to make that statement with certainty. There is also sufficient emerging data to suggest that the vaccines can have some serious - even lethal - side effects. No one knows what the long term effects on a developing fetus might be.

With regards to climate change, the Science Says crowd also appears to be pathologically unable to consider benefits and costs. Or that some climate change may be anthropomorphically induced and some may be due to natural factors as have occurred since the earth was formed. These are very black/white on/off thinkers. Science is not binary. That is why we have concepts like multivariant regression analysis that show us the contribution of each variable......ughh...why bother? It is hard to de-program cult members.
 
#56
David.
You are writing about two different things.
Do you think I should therefore through away the facts about Climate Change because China is ignoring the facts of it as well?
Why would I do that? China is at fault as well.
Again... this isn't political. This is existential.
J
 
#57
Again... this isn't political. This is existential.
This stuff makes me consider the Realms hypothesis championed by Sam Tripoli.
Like maybe if you believe the world is flat, your world is flat..
And maybe if you believe climate change isn't political, your climate change isn't political.
 
#58
I never said that climate change doesn't engage in politics. It ENTIRELY DOES.
After all, just like cancer with cigarettes, you see who is engaging in Climate Change denial early on- hint- it's the oil companies and their payment of scientists to deny what basically every other scientists NOT making big cash were saying all around the world.
And how that muddies the waters. Like look right now the latest study that's come out. They've done some heavy number crunching and have found out that the recent events occurring could not statistically have happened without anthropomorphic climate change being correct.
The massive heat we just had in the west, just broke all the records everywhere.

So, yes, it's political. It's even religious. I know someone I talked to recently about why he was denying climate change. He said in an honest moment, "Because God wouldn't do that to us."
As a Christian, he should know this is the same god he believes nearly wiped out the entire human race with a flood.
So denialism goes far and deep, no matter what science tells us.
J
 
#59
Reminds me of my visit to Taiwan, Portuguese named it Formosa, beautiful island, which it is, but pristine back in the day apparently. I found myself just about choking from the dirty air, not in Taipei you understand but in the Taroko National Park. Dirty air everywhere, like whole of Europe and whole of America. It's called the Anthropocene by the humans but they wouldn't understand having not experienced anything else...
 
#60
This is an interesting discussion. I think this climate change shit is nonsense. Didn't we have one of the biggest freeze overs, ever, in heartland of America, this year? I am sure that some jack ass will try to say how this is attributed to carbon emissions that cause cold weather as well. In other words, they will shift their descriptions of what changes the climate based upon the actual extremes we experience in the climate, everyday, whether hot or cold. Nevertheless, they will always push toward this "global warming" bullshit. Also, anything labeled as "global" is highly suspect of a full of shit factor.
 
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