Telekinesis

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#21
I know what I seen and that's all I'll say it requires practice everyday if you don't have the energy you can debate pseudo skeptics for the rest of your life
 
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#22
If Telekinesis was learnable, there would be millions and millions of people practicing it by now and it already would have been accepted as fact long ago. Parents would have taught their children which would have passed down the knowledge to their children and so forth. I know quite a hand full of people who believe in it, but none has ever seen it happen by him or herself: "Somebody told me that somebody is able to....".
If it is possible, then I strongly believe it is not a skill one can learn, but a random occurence on a very small scale.
What's your distinction between a small occurrence on a very small scale and a skill?

Seems to me like you're not making your presuppositions very clear
 
#23
If Telekinesis was learnable, there would be millions and millions of people practicing it by now and it already would have been accepted as fact long ago. Parents would have taught their children which would have passed down the knowledge to their children and so forth. I know quite a hand full of people who believe in it, but none has ever seen it happen by him or herself: "Somebody told me that somebody is able to....".
If it is possible, then I strongly believe it is not a skill one can learn, but a random occurence on a very small scale.
That isn't a very safe way to reason. For example, there have been exceptional people of all sorts in history (take the Mathematician Gauss for example) who did things that seem impossible for a human being to achieve. However, we tend to encourage very bright kids to do maths, but we don't encourage people with gifts in this direction to develop them.

I.e. you end up with a vicious circle - if something requires a lot of practice and only a few can do it, then you only see examples of phenomena that people already believe in!

BTW To the extent that you can be said to know Baccarat, you do know someone who says he has seen this happen.

David
 
#24
I reckon the major hurdle is an absolute knowing that it is possible (not just faith or belief). My issue is that I still have doubts because I've been probably subliminally brainwashed with a materialistic worldview.
 
#25
I reckon the major hurdle is an absolute knowing that it is possible (not just faith or belief). My issue is that I still have doubts because I've been probably subliminally brainwashed with a materialistic worldview.
On a related topic, that was the way I felt about out-of-body experiences. I'd read plenty about them, but was it all hogwash, I asked myself. After I had it happen the first time, however small or insignificant it might have been, it was a game-changer. I knew it was possible. After that, it almost seemed unnecessary to proceed much further, it wasn't so much what happened, so much as the simple fact that it did happen which seemed important - at least at that point in time, which was many years ago now.
 
#26
If its an actual thing and its learnable then I think Illusion's point about it being taught by parents to children is a fair question. It its limited to those with a rare genetic make up that's another thing.
 
#27
If its an actual thing and its learnable then I think Illusion's point about it being taught by parents to children is a fair question. It its limited to those with a rare genetic make up that's another thing.
Only if parents feel comfortable about teaching their kids the skill in question! Even if they feel they have some skill at PK (say), they may not wish to help their kids to achieve the same - particularly if they feel a freak for being able to do it.

David
 
#28
Only if parents feel comfortable about teaching their kids the skill in question! Even if they feel they have some skill at PK (say), they may not wish to help their kids to achieve the same - particularly if they feel a freak for being able to do it.

David
That's a lot of presumed behaviors to follow down that road. There are likely cultures around today, not to mention the myriad of cultures we've had in the past, that wouldn't be overly suppressive of these abilities.

Alternatively, perhaps parents would wait and then teach adult children (who'd be in a better position to understand the implications).

I'll admit I struggle with the notion of an ability like telekinesis hiding in plain sight.
 
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#29
That's a lot of presumed behaviors to follow down that road. There are likely cultures around today, not to mention the myriad of cultures we've had in the past, that wouldn't be overly suppressive of these abilities.

Alternatively, perhaps parents would wait and then teach adult children (who'd be in a better position to understand the implications).

I'll admit I struggle with the notion of an ability like telekinesis hiding in plain sight.
I struggled with it to, in fact a few weeks before I posted struggling about it before I witnessed it. It is indeed rare, it probably takes years of training. The basic knowledge of this subject is known through pop culture (carrie for example) and other modalities of entertainment. I don't think the whole notion of "parents teaching their kids" seems like a weak swipe, 1. what parents actually have the time to teach their kids in this heavily distracted world? 2. how many parents actually believe in TK enough to teach it. 3. Who's to say they are capable of teaching it 4. Who would want to teach a kid TK, that would be dangerous!! With more power comes more responsibility! I wouldn't teach a kid TK!! 5.TK is shrouded in disbelief, dogma, and skepticism, this isn't after school guitar lessons or chess.....its a fringe topic
 
#31
I don't think the whole notion of "parents teaching their kids" seems like a weak swipe, 1. what parents actually have the time to teach their kids in this heavily distracted world? 2. how many parents actually believe in TK enough to teach it. 3. Who's to say they are capable of teaching it 4. Who would want to teach a kid TK, that would be dangerous!! With more power comes more responsibility! I wouldn't teach a kid TK!! 5.TK is shrouded in disbelief, dogma, and skepticism, this isn't after school guitar lessons or chess.....its a fringe topic
Driving a car is dangerous. Hunting for food is dangerous. There's danger and power embedded in all kinds of things parents teach their children.

This says nothing about other teacher/student relationships. TK is shrouded in disbelief, dogma and skepticism because there isn't any proof of it in the mainstream. Again, I am not saying it isn't a real phenomena. I do, however, find it hard to believe that it is a generally "learnable" skill. I haven't heard a compelling argument as to why more folks wouldn't have 'learned' it if it were so. The potential beneficial uses of moving things with the mind are immense.
 
#32
I remember, when I was a young kid, I visited a lesson of "silver mind control". Maybe some of you know that. It was quite popular in the 80s. The teacher I had, talked a lot about telekinesis and said that she also taught her children and gave some examples (like influencing those wheel sets that are moved by a burning candle). She never showed us kids, though. Why not, when she even taught it to her children?
Regarding my statement of "small occurrence on a very small scale": Something that is not done by intention but just happens randomly, like a sheet of paper that moves in a glimpse of an eye for a milimeter. Nothing big (like a table) or intentional.

@David:
If I really knew Baccarat and I knew that he was sceptical of paranormal occurrences, and he would tell me that he now believes in it, that would give a lot of credibility. Otherwise I would not believe it.
 
#33
If I really knew Baccarat and I knew that he was sceptical of paranormal occurrences, and he would tell me that he now believes in it, that would give a lot of credibility. Otherwise I would not believe it.
OK - but nobody's circle of acquaintances is very large, and you can see how that can bias your decision. You probably accept many propositions without knowing someone who can personally verify them - so your objection really boils down to the fact that you give the idea such a low prior probability.

Remember Dean Radin's experiments in which meditators can shift the quantum interference pattern generated by a two-slit experiment. The effect is small, but seemingly real. If anyone can mess with the quantum probability rules, they can do just about anything! What might happen if Dean could train his meditators for years?

David
 
#34
But I give it a low prior probability because of my experience regarding this topic and related ones and because of what I personally know about life, so to speak. As I said I would never rule it out by a 100%, but as of now I deem it very unlikely to exist beyond a minor scale.
Maybe investing hours upon hours per day in practicing those abilites would yield an astonishing result, I do not know. It definitely would be fascinating. On the other hand, wouldn't the military have used it by now, if it could be trained to a certain, much stronger degree?
 
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#35
But I give it a low prior probability because of my experience regarding this topic and related ones and because of what I personally know about life, so to speak. As I said I would never rule it out by a 100%, but as of now I deem it very unlikely to exist beyond a minor scale.
Maybe investing hours upon hours per day in practicing those abilites would yield an astonishing result, I do not know. It definitely would be fascinating. On the other hand, wouldn't the military have used it by now, if it could be trained to a certain, much stronger degree?
Well why don't you seek the knowledge to harness it ?
 
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#36
Driving a car is dangerous. Hunting for food is dangerous. There's danger and power embedded in all kinds of things parents teach their children.

This says nothing about other teacher/student relationships. TK is shrouded in disbelief, dogma and skepticism because there isn't any proof of it in the mainstream. Again, I am not saying it isn't a real phenomena. I do, however, find it hard to believe that it is a generally "learnable" skill. I haven't heard a compelling argument as to why more folks wouldn't have 'learned' it if it were so. The potential beneficial uses of moving things with the mind are immense.
I admire your skepticism, like I said I was skeptical about it too, I posted about it on a thread a month or so before. Do I know how the Mechanism of TK works? No Do I know how to do it myself? No Do I know how long it would take? No I can only estimate.

If you need a compelling argument about why it wouldn't be a good idea, in my opinion your trying to talk yourself in to disbelief.

Let's train score of people to learn TK and some will use it for good and evil and possibly if someone gets overly angry (Like the movie carrie) for example and tear some stuff up. If you that is not compelling I don't know what is.....imagine half the population using TK to destroy shit....
 
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#37
Not everyone who studies esoteric/occultism is doing it for spirtual growth or to help humanity. There is a lot of evil people out there.....sorry that's the cold hard reality.....
 
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#38
Energy is indifferent........, humans are made up of energy. If a fuse box uses to much energy it does what? See my drift....so many variables
 
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#39
Humans on average sleep 6-8 hours a day, work full time or part time
Have to shop, cook, watch sports or there favorite tv show, sometimes run errands. Or they might have a hobby, take care of there kids etc. On top of that the information is scarce about to, and when people hear about It, it's brushed off as BS. Barely gets a 2nd thought unless it's seen in some movie or t.v. show, video game. I can only imagine the amount of Energy, time effort and dedication it would take. That is what separates legends from the mundane. The legends worked on there craft for decades day in and night out. That is what separates the Michael Jordan's or the kobes or Hendrix from the rest. Most people are too just caught up in mundane activities,this knowledge was never meant to be given to the public and I agree with that sentiment. Most people lie about how much "work" they put in, i know people who lies through their teeth about their dedication to their craft. Like Eric Thomas said "let me follow you home"
 
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#40
The difference between a guitar player practicing and being average and some practicing tk comes down to how much do you believe it to be true. The ego won't, of you don't believe in yourself you won't accomplish what you set out to do. Tk is a fringe topic so the weight of that disbelief is a heavy burden. Not so much with guitar or athletics or art etc.
 
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