The Donald Trump Thread

Well unfortunately anyone who wants to start a new movement in politics has to have a lot of money. Nigel Farage spent about 20 years on the project to get us out of the EU, and he needs a break. He also helped to support Donald Trump in the election, and is, I think, advising him right now.

Have you come across many people who voted to leave the EU complaining that they were tricked? The biggest so-called lie was the figure of £350 Million a week going to Brussels. Sure it was the gross sum, but the reason the other side called it a lie was because they didn't want to give a net figure - which would still have been enormous.

Well most of the media pride themselves on being left, and they did their very best to conceal the fact that the US had given weapons to groups in Syria that are basically terrorists. The war would never have happened without the US giving weapons to those guys. I don't know how bad Assad really was, but I do know that the war and destruction must have been orders of magnitude worse.

If the media had stopped wasting time on the minutiae of gender politics, and explored the murky war in Syria, making comparisons with Libya and all the other countries in that region that have been ruined by US meddling, we might have stopped that war years ago.

David

Hi David

Well first of all, the £350 million sum is completely false due to the rebate we get before we even pay. This figure, and the leave campaign in general, also left out the economic benefits of being in the EU.

I don't think there is really any genuinely left wing media that is mainstream in the UK or the US, in the US most of the media is centre right/liberal - which is why they supported Clinton and went after Sanders. Clinton is objectively speaking, quite right wing. In the UK the most popular newspapers are right wing, and the Guardian is liberal, which explains their frequent attacks on Jeremy Corbyn, who is actually left wing.

We are in agreement with the media misreporting of the Syria situation, but in the UK the right press such as the Sun and the Daily Mail are just as guilty as that. I think we can all agree that the mainstream press should not be trusted.

I have no idea why should have been done in Syria, my instincts always side with no intervening, but it's a situation where I find getting to the truth pretty much impossible.

Cheers!

Roberta
 
I'd also like to add that Nigel Farage today called Brendan Cox a supporter of extremism.

This is a man who's wife, who was a British politician, was shot and killed by a far right extremist during the run up to the EU referendum.

Farage also previously said that the EU referendum was won 'without any shots being fired'.

Stuff like this is why I know Nigel Farage does not care for ordinary people, he is an odious man who is beyond reproach.
 
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And the 'centre' has moved to the right.

How old are you Roberta? Old enough to remember the old right of Thatcher and Reagan? Cameron and May are a long way from that.

The rhetoric of the establishment media is more left leaning than ever...you don't see that just like a fish doesn't recognize it is in water.
 
How old are you Roberta? Old enough to remember the old right of Thatcher and Reagan? Cameron and May are a long way from that.

The rhetoric of the establishment media is more left leaning than ever...you don't see that just like a fish doesn't recognize it is in water.

Not interesting in telling you how old I am. I'm very aware of Thatcher and Reagan, Cameron and May are merely continuing the policies that they started.

I'm sure you *feel* that way, it doesn't mean it's true. And your fish in water comment is strange and uncalled for.
 
I'm sorry for going off on a tangent in my post above, after starting with one thing firmly in my mind, i got sidetracked. I went with it, as I felt, as I often do, that this forum is the only place that can absorb sideways thinking without everyone getting their knickers in a twist!

So back to my original point. About love being what we need, more love and less fear. This is the message that I'm getting. I can only pass the message on, I can't, nor would I try to, force it on anyone.

We all need to take a step back from fear and see what's left. As we get more deeply into this seeming madness that Trump, Brexit, Syria, Iraq, terrorist attacks etc etc, eventually we must get the message. Love will conquer all.

Either that, or we will all go back to where we came from at more or less the same time and discuss what went wrong ;)
 
I'd also like to add that Nigel Farage today called Brendan Cox a supporter of extremism.

This is a man who's wife, who was a British politician, was shot and killed by a far right extremist during the run up to the EU referendum.

Farage also previously said that the EU referendum was won 'without any shots being fired'.

Stuff like this is why I know Nigel Farage does not care for ordinary people, he is an odious man who is beyond reproach.

You should seriously think about a career in politics with the ability for that kind of obfuscation.

By this logic every time a muslim kills in the name of Islam we should all pay attention.
 
You should seriously think about a career in politics with the ability for that kind of obfuscation.

By this logic every time a muslim kills in the name of Islam we should all pay attention.

How did you manage to compare Nigel Farage with a Muslim?

I'm not obfuscating, he has twice now insulted a woman who was shot by an extremist, that kind of behaviour isn't representative or ordinary people. Are you claiming it is?
 
Hi David

Well first of all, the £350 million sum is completely false due to the rebate we get before we even pay. This figure, and the leave campaign in general, also left out the economic benefits of being in the EU.
Well the rebate might not be permanent - otherwise why was it called a rebate rather than a reduction of our membership bill? The real point here is that the remain side desperately wanted to attack our figure without publicising their own figure, that would still have been enormous. Their answer was just to say our figure was a lie.
I don't think there is really any genuinely left wing media that is mainstream in the UK or the US, in the US most of the media is centre right/liberal - which is why they supported Clinton and went after Sanders. Clinton is objectively speaking, quite right wing. In the UK the most popular newspapers are right wing, and the Guardian is liberal, which explains their frequent attacks on Jeremy Corbyn, who is actually left wing.
Well I think we both agree that these terms are losing meaning in the present context. The crucial point is that it was vital to avoid Hillary Clinton becoming president because she was a war monger. I hope that is now behind us.
We are in agreement with the media misreporting of the Syria situation, but in the UK the right press such as the Sun and the Daily Mail are just as guilty as that. I think we can all agree that the mainstream press should not be trusted.

I have no idea why should have been done in Syria, my instincts always side with no intervening, but it's a situation where I find getting to the truth pretty much impossible.

Remarkably we are basically in agreement here!

My feeling is that the whole "Arab Spring" idea was planted in people's heads to provide a pretext for the US to interfere all over the Middle East, and it has been a total disaster. Aleppo was I think very much like Mosul - civilians held hostage by terrorists indistinguishable from ISIS.

The problem is that we really need an honest press, otherwise democracy falls apart.

Regarding the spat between Brendan Cox and Nigel Farage, here is the context (from the Guardian):
The widower of Jo Cox became embroiled in a war of words with Nigel Farage after criticising the Ukip politician for saying the Berlin Christmas market attack would reflect Angela Merkel’s “legacy”.

In return, Farage accused Cox of supporting extremism by backing Hope Not Hate, a charity that campaigns to counter militant or bigoted political activity, especially from rightwing groups.
Well the Christmas market attack, and a similar but more deadly attack in France, and the attack at Brussels Airport, and what happened at the Bataclan Concert hall,....... are all reasons why Angela Merkel made a terrible mistake - which she is even starting to admit.

Everybody felt disgust about the Murder of Ms Cox, but the murderer was basically mad. Brendon Cox is on very slippery ground if he wants to use her death as an excuse to attack people who had absolutely no responsibility for what happened. Just after that happened, I think a lot of people thought her death would encourage a huge sympathy for for 'Remain'. It would seem the general public could separate these two issues.

David
 
How did you manage to compare Nigel Farage with a Muslim?

I'm not obfuscating, he has twice now insulted a woman who was shot by an extremist, that kind of behaviour isn't representative or ordinary people. Are you claiming it is?

If Jo Cox' killer is representative of the "right," then muslim extremists are representative of Islam, is what I am saying.
 
I'm sorry for going off on a tangent in my post above, after starting with one thing firmly in my mind, i got sidetracked. I went with it, as I felt, as I often do, that this forum is the only place that can absorb sideways thinking without everyone getting their knickers in a twist!

So back to my original point. About love being what we need, more love and less fear. This is the message that I'm getting. I can only pass the message on, I can't, nor would I try to, force it on anyone.

We all need to take a step back from fear and see what's left. As we get more deeply into this seeming madness that Trump, Brexit, Syria, Iraq, terrorist attacks etc etc, eventually we must get the message. Love will conquer all.

Indeed, love will conquer all. I agree with you. The very fact that we exist within a stable structure of reality is in my thinking a demonstration of love conquering all.

Nevertheless I think one reason we're here in this life is for the drama... that's why this thread on such an earthly thing as an election is still so interesting to a group of "heavenly minded" people. :)
 
Nevertheless I think one reason we're here in this life is for the drama...

The more I see the more I'm becoming convinced that we're basically here to learn lessons, and drama provides loads of opportunity for that. It's a game in a way, but it's a serious one with serious aims, at the same time that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have fun playing it.

It's not surprising that most of us are apathetic or dwell on the negative, given the picture most have of the state of the world. :)
 
If Jo Cox' killer is representative of the "right," then muslim extremists are representative of Islam, is what I am saying.

I never said the killer was representative of the right. I said that Farage isn't representative of ordinary people - ordinary people wouldn't insult a man who's wife has been recently killed.
 
Trump Can't Deliver Rust Belt Jobs Because Work Has Changed

...Trump will enter office with the nearly impossible challenge of rebuilding a sector of the economy that technology has altered at least as much as globalization has. To help the constituents who were instrumental in electing him, he’ll need to get a GOP Congress to back policies at stark odds with conservative orthodoxy. Even then, the implacable forces of automation guarantee that whatever jobs may return to the Rust Belt won’t look like those of days gone by.

“The traditional kinds of factory work are not coming back,” says Erik Brynjolfsson, director of the MIT Initiative on the Digital Economy.
 
I never said the killer was representative of the right.
You did.

I said that Farage isn't representative of ordinary people - ordinary people wouldn't insult a man who's wife has been recently killed.

This is setting up a false dichotomy. People can feel sympathy for a young mother who lost her life, and disagree with her husband's political convictions at the same time. Maybe the complexity is lost on you.
 
Newt Gingrich says Trump is done with ‘drain the swamp’

There were two notable Trumpworld headlines Wednesday morning. One was the news that Corey Lewandowski — Donald Trump's former campaign manager who remained part of his inner circle long after leaving that job — had just opened a “full service government relations and consulting firm” half a block from the White House.

The other was that the president-elect is apparently over “drain the swamp.”

That's according to Newt Gingrich, a top ally who told NPR in an interview that aired Wednesday morning that he was instructed not to use the phrase anymore because it has fallen out of favor with Trump.

“I'm told he now just disclaims that,” Gingrich said on “Morning Edition.” “He now says it was cute, but he doesn't want to use it anymore.”

Gingrich said he had “written what I thought was a very cute tweet about 'the alligators are complaining,'" but that “somebody wrote back and said they were tired of hearing this stuff.”

Gingrich actually drafted two tweets in recent days about draining the swamp — tweets that apparently earned him the rebuke.
 
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Negotiating costs seems completely different from draining the swamp? I think the concerns about the swamp are things like this ->

The Vampire Squid Occupies Trump's White House

"After running against Goldman as a candidate, Donald Trump licks the boots of the world's largest investment bank"

...Indeed, within a year, three of the country's storied top five investment banks – Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers – would be wiped out by the crisis, thanks mainly to their overinvestment in subprime.

One bank stood out as an exception: Goldman Sachs.

The legend on the street was that Goldman was somehow not only going to survive the crash, but prosper and make big profits. How did Goldman do so well during a financial hurricane? The New York Times had an answer: its leaders were smart – and humble!

"Goldman's secret sauce, say executives, analysts and historians," the paper wrote, "is high-octane business acumen, tempered with paranoia and institutionally encouraged — though not always observed — humility."

Where did writers Jenny Anderson and Landon Thomas Jr. get the idea that Goldman's smarts saved them during the mortgage crisis? From Goldman, of course.

We know this because of an investigation conducted into the bank's a-little-too-miraculous performance that year by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

Chaired by Michigan Sen. Carl Levin, the PSI scrupulously detailed the efforts by Goldman to get out from under the mortgage crash by dumping its disastrous mortgage investments on its own clients as it simultaneously bet against them.

This maneuver, colloquially described since as the "Big Short" episode, was perhaps the most lurid example of Wall Street iniquity during the crash years. And Trump's new economic adviser, Cohn, played a central role.

In the run-up to the "Big Short" story – in the years leading up to 2007 – Goldman had joined other banks in helping cause the financial crisis. They'd done so by creating masses of toxic mortgage instruments and selling them to unsuspecting investors, who were (often falsely) told the loans met underwriting standards. Goldman, like JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America and Citigroup, would later pay billions to settle claims by its infuriated customers, which included state and federal housing authorities.

At the tail end of 2006, Goldman execs saw that a) the subprime mortgage market was in serious trouble, and b) the bank itself was dangerously overinvested in it. So they made a frenzied, often deceptive effort to induce their clients to eat what should naturally have been their own losses.

On December 14th, 2006, mortgage chief Daniel Sparks proposed: "Distribute as much as possible on bonds created from new loan securitizations and clean previous positions."

Translation: Let's create new mortgage-backed products to dump on others, and use them to "clean" our toxic portfolio.

In one mortgage-based deal called Hudson 1 securities, Goldman helped sell its toxic holdings by saying the bank's interests were "aligned" with those of potential clients, because it would own a tiny, $6 million slice of the deal.

The bank left out the fact that it had a $2 billion bet against the same deal.

In the same deal, Goldman told clients that the mortgage products in Hudson had been "sourced from the Street," i.e., that this stuff did not come from Goldman's own inventory. When Senate investigators later pressed Goldman executives on this question, they hilariously claimed this wasn't a lie, because Goldman was part of "the Street."

"They were like, 'We are the Street,'" one investigator told me, laughing.

Through deals like this, Goldman within months went from having a $6 billion bet on mortgages to having a $10 billion bet against them – a "big short."

All of these moves were made with the assent of the Firmwide Risk Committee, which included Goldman CFO David Viniar, Blankfein and Cohn.

They would go on to fleece other clients...
 
One of the problems with the phrase "drain the swamp" is that different people might think it means different things. Some people will think the other party or the previous administration is the swamp. Some people think big government is the swamp. Other people think corporate influence is the swamp. Given the current polarization in the electorate, I don't expect people to agree on what the swamp is or whether it is being drained or not.

It's same problem as whether Trump is anti-establishment or not. Different people are worried about different establishments. Some think big government is the establishment restricting economic freedom, they will think deregulation is anti-establishment (draining the swamp). Others think corporations are the establishment and the role of government is to rein them in, they will think deregulation is not anti-establishment (not draining the swamp).

It is unfortunate that Trump often does not speak with precision or tact. This is one reason I thought there were much better candidates than him during the primaries. Trump himself is responsible for a lot of the negative sentiments toward him that have come from both parties, and also the divisiveness of the election, its aftermath, and the horror many people view him with. Some people might say he had to speak that way to win the election so he could make changes that no one else could - I don't know, I suspect it drove away a lot of voters. Many people agreed both candidates were not very good so I don't think there is much reason to believe that Trump was the only republican who could win. Trump has a different approach than other republicans, but given the republican majorities in the house and senate, I think any repubilcan elected president would be able to accumulate a list of accomplishments that would make him look like a great president to other republicans.


If you want to solve problems, it is better to debate policy and not politics.
 
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/811975049431416832

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Someone incorrectly stated that the phrase "DRAIN THE SWAMP" was no longer being used by me. Actually, we will always be trying to DTS.





Newt Gingrich was live.
4 hrs ·
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I goofed earlier, so to clarify, draining the swamp is in, Donald J. Trump is going to do it, and the alligators should be worried. #DTS

"Taking on Boeing is an exmaple of draining the swamp".
 
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