The Donald Trump Thread

Meltdown.

What's clear is someone is going to go down for this. Either Obama is tarnished by a major scandal or Trump is. Or both.

However it seems to me Trump has more to lose - if there's no wrong doing on Obama's part Trump looks like a maniac (though he might be able to shore up support and claim slander against genuine allegations using this move).

If there's wrong doing on Trump's part, or even just the release of financial ties to Russia, it tarnishes him and makes it look like he was blaming Obama to hide his own evils...I'm beginning to wonder if Trump merely has a lot of foreign debt and probably should've just come clean in January...

There isn't much actual info ACAICTell, a lot of speculation where people accept the parts that ally with their politics.

Just Security seems to have a pretty good rundown, however, and I've seen it quoted by both "liberals" and "conservatives"....might be worth a read.
 
This article seems uncomfortably close to the truth:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article195455.html

The whole accusation about Russian involvement seems more like smoke and mirrors to me.

1) Nobody denies the content of Hillary's emails.

2) The world is awash with hacking - so how is this pinned on the Russian state.

3) There are vague accusations that Russian news organisations published 'fake news', but nobody discusses specifics, because I suspect the Russian news is more accurate than the Western variety. I don't say this idly. I remember what actually happened in Georgia and in the Ukraine, based on BBC broadcasts at the time. The truth was very different from how these events are routinely portrayed now.

4) I don't know the exact legalities barring potential presidential appointees from talking to representatives of foreign states (surely the statute doesn't explicitly single out Russia), but I am very dubious if these have been followed to the letter in the past.

David
 
This article seems uncomfortably close to the truth:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article195455.html

David

Blog post seems short on evidence?

Well there's a simple enough solution - Trump can declassify the relevant documents and release his tax returns:

IF TRUMP TOWER WAS WIRETAPPED, TRUMP CAN DECLASSIFY THAT RIGHT NOW

Then we'll know, one way or another, what the possibility of Russian collusion is.

But really I think it's past the hacking, the question is whether there was any collusion on Trump's part or unwarranted targeted of American citizens by Obama...though Democrats and Republicans seem to be okay with targeting American citizens for surveillance in other instances but I guess if you're on the right/wrong teams it becomes a bad thing.....
 
Blog post seems short on evidence?

Well there's a simple enough solution - Trump can declassify the relevant documents and release his tax returns:

IF TRUMP TOWER WAS WIRETAPPED, TRUMP CAN DECLASSIFY THAT RIGHT NOW

Then we'll know, one way or another, what the possibility of Russian collusion is.

But really I think it's past the hacking, the question is whether there was any collusion on Trump's part or unwarranted targeted of American citizens by Obama...though Democrats and Republicans seem to be okay with targeting American citizens for surveillance in other instances but I guess if you're on the right/wrong teams it becomes a bad thing.....
Well possibly as an American (I think) you can tell me exactly what the issue is - it seems to shift and blur from day to day!

David
 
Well possibly as an American (I think) you can tell me exactly what the issue is - it seems to shift and blur from day to day!

David

Yup, American. Basically there are people who think there is a smoking gun against Trump for collusion with Russians OR against Obama for illegal (or at least politically motivated) wire tapping of Trump Tower. The Just Security link gives a break down of the legal questions involved - I thought it was a good break down and I've seen it referenced by"liberals" and "conservatives".

My guess is wiretaps were ordered against people Trump Tower was calling, rather than Trump Tower itself. What these taps will reveal, if anything, is still up for grabs.

AFAIK there's no actual hard evidence of nefarious collusion with Russia, but also no proof Obama ordered surveillance of Trump Tower in the form of wiretaps. Naturally people are quick to accept information that suits their own political agendas - thus the tendency to accept conspiracy theories on scant evidence - but there isn't anything solid that I've seen suggesting either the current or prior PotUS did anything illegal in this instance.

But as noted in the Intercept link I posted Trump can bring clarity by simply declassifying the necessary documents for the public, and I'd add that he can also bring clarity by releasing his tax returns to the public.
 
Well possibly as an American (I think) you can tell me exactly what the issue is - it seems to shift and blur from day to day!

David

Being closer to a city filled with professional liars is not any help in figuring out the truth. The politicians lie, and the journalist lie about the lies.

It would be peculiar if the new administration (whose party now holds a majority in both houses of congress) is investigated while the crimes of the previous one remain ignored.

My recommendation is to buy popcorn and try to develop an attitude of detachment.
 
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Being closer to a city filled with professional liars is not any help in figuring out the truth. The politicians lie, and the journalist lie about the lies.

It would be peculiar if the new administration (whose party now holds a majority in both houses of congress) is investigated while the crimes of the previous one remain ignored.

My recommendation is to buy popcorn and try to develop an attitude of detachment.



It'll make a great movie some day.

Who thinks he'll be there this time next year? I'm gonna say 'No'.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/26292-donald-trump-impeachment-odds
 
My guess is wiretaps were ordered against people Trump Tower was calling, rather than Trump Tower itself.

...so they tapped the wire a little closer to the receiver end than to Trump Tower end?

Everything is "tapped". Everybody knows that and if people don't know that by now, they haven't been paying attention. All of our un-encrypted communications can be replayed and obviously the Obama administration was willing to risk anything to stop Trump so why not listen to the conversations freely available courtesy of the NSA's database. Trump was probably (hopefully) aware of this too and any communication he really wanted secrecy on would use encryption. Perhaps he set a trap for them by using un-encrypted communication for facile conversations which would turn up nothing.

AFAIK there's no actual hard evidence of nefarious collusion with Russia

Yep, none.

but also no proof Obama ordered surveillance of Trump Tower in the form of wiretaps.

No proof has emerged that Obama personally ordered it. But according to the NYT and others, he was presented with intelligence reports based on the wiretapped conversations.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html?_r=1
The F.B.I. is leading the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, the C.I.A. and the Treasury Department’s financial crimes unit. The investigators have accelerated their efforts in recent weeks but have found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said. One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.

Obama is not going away... that's why he moved to D.C. instead of retiring peacefully to Hawaii like he previously planned. A soviet style revolution and overthrow of elected government is being attempted and the community organizer would love to climb on top of that mess. If the dissemination of information through the internet can be disrupted, the official media will start saying that Trump is gassing Muslims by the millions or some equivalent Hitlerian Horror, and then revolution will begin followed by war.

But hopefully we can keep the lights on and avoid all that.

Naturally people are quick to accept information that suits their own political agendas - thus the tendency to accept conspiracy theories on scant evidence - but there isn't anything solid that I've seen suggesting either the current or prior PotUS did anything illegal in this instance.

A great many illegal activities have been given a veneer of legality following 9/11.
 
Obama is not going away... that's why he moved to D.C. instead of retiring peacefully to Hawaii like he previously planned. A soviet style revolution and overthrow of elected government is being attempted and the community organizer would love to climb on top of that mess. If the dissemination of information through the internet can be disrupted, the official media will start saying that Trump is gassing Muslims by the millions or some equivalent Hitlerian Horror, and then revolution will begin followed by war.

But hopefully we can keep the lights on and avoid all t

Evidence?

It'll make a great movie some day.

Who thinks he'll be there this time next year? I'm gonna say 'No'.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/26292-donald-trump-impeachment-odds

So far I don't think there's evidence that would be grounds for impeachment?

Need some concrete violation of laws (even then it would depend on laws broken). Backroom talks about dropping sanctions or easing relations is not going to be enough.
 
Evidence?

It's based on my personality profile of him and the increasingly desperate actions of the faction of which he is a part... the continued effort to destroy Trump politically... and the various data points that indicated a war was planned for around this time.

Here's his D.C. house... (I really like it by the way...) ...before he had the succulent hotdog kiddie dungeon installed.
http://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/real-estate/news/g2535/obama-new-house-photos/
 
It's based on my personality profile of him and the increasingly desperate actions of the faction of which he is a part... the continued effort to destroy Trump politically... and the various data points that indicated a war was planned for around this time.

Here's his D.C. house... (I really like it by the way...) ...before he had the succulent hotdog kiddie dungeon installed.
http://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/real-estate/news/g2535/obama-new-house-photos/
What did your 'personality profile' of Trump reveal?
 
Perhaps he set a trap for them by using un-encrypted communication for facile conversations which would turn up nothing.
LOL. Yes. Trump the genius set this trap!!! You made me laugh out loud with this. He's like a master chess player, scheming 10 moves ahead of the US Intelligence agencies. Forgive me, but you are delusional.
Obama is not going away... that's why he moved to D.C. instead of retiring peacefully to Hawaii like he previously planned. A soviet style revolution and overthrow of elected government is being attempted and the community organizer would love to climb on top of that mess. If the dissemination of information through the internet can be disrupted, the official media will start saying that Trump is gassing Muslims by the millions or some equivalent Hitlerian Horror, and then revolution will begin followed by war.
Yeah. We'll file this in the same place as your world armageddon meltdown of 2016. LOL.
 
I reckon the 2013 public exposure of CIA agent Ryan Fogle in Moscow was an action of the Obama administration, because some in the US intelligence community were not following the administration's orders (caught trying to fiddle around again in the Northern Caucasus) so they told the Russians they could hang Fogle out to dry.

Might be of interest:

Democrats Now Demonize the Same Russia Policies that Obama Long Championed

...This attempt to equate Trump’s opposition to arming Ukraine with some sort of treasonous allegiance to Putin masks a rather critical fact: namely, that the refusal to arm Ukraine with lethal weapons was one of Barack Obama’s most steadfastly held policies...

...Early media reports about this controversy from outlets such as NPR also noted the irony at the heart of this debate: namely, that arming Ukraine was the long-time desire of hawks in the GOP such as John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio, but the Obama White House categorically resisted those pressures...

The general Russia approach that Democrats now routinely depict as treasonous – avoiding confrontation with and even accommodating Russian interests, not just in Ukraine but also in Syria – was one of the defining traits of Obama’s foreign policy. This fact shouldn’t be overstated: Obama engaged in provocative acts such as moves to further expand NATO, non-lethal aid to Ukraine, and deploying “missile defense” weaponry in Romania. But he rejected most calls to confront Russia. That is one of the primary reasons the “foreign policy elite” – which, recall, Obama came into office denouncing and vowing to repudiate – was so dissatisfied with his presidency.

A new, long article by Politico foreign affairs correspondent Susan Glasser – on the war being waged against Trump by Washington’s “foreign policy elite” – makes this point very potently. Say what you will about Politico, but one thing they are very adept at doing is giving voice to cowardly Washington insiders by accommodating their cowardice and thus routinely granting them anonymity to express themselves. As journalistically dubious as it is to shield the world’s most powerful people with anonymity, this practice sometimes ends up revealing what careerist denizens of Washington power really think but are too scared to say. Glasser’s article, which largely consists of conveying the views of anonymous high-level Obama officials, contains this remarkable passage:

politicofp-1488804138.png

Put another way, establishment Democrats – with a largely political impetus but now as a matter of conviction – have completely abandoned Obama’s accommodationist approach to Russia and have fully embraced the belligerent, hawkish mentality of John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Bill Kristol, the CIA and Evan McMullin. It should thus come as no surprise that a bill proposed by supreme warmonger Lindsey Graham to bar Trump from removing sanctions against Russia has more Democratic co-sponsors than Republican ones.

This is why it’s so notable that Democrats, in the name of “resistance,” have aligned with neocons, CIA operatives and former Bush officials: not because coalitions should be avoided with the ideologically impure, but because it reveals much about the political and policy mindset they’ve adopted in the name of stopping Trump. They’re not “resisting” Trump from the left or with populist appeals – by, for instance, devoting themselves to protection of Wall Street and environmental regulations under attack, or supporting the revocation of jobs-killing free trade agreements, or demanding that Yemini civilians not be massacred.

Instead, they’re attacking him on the grounds of insufficient nationalism, militarism, and aggression: equating a desire to avoid confrontation with Moscow as a form of treason (just like they did when they were the leading Cold Warriors).
 
LOL. Yes. Trump the genius set this trap!!! You made me laugh out loud with this. He's like a master chess player, scheming 10 moves ahead of the US Intelligence agencies. Forgive me, but you are delusional.

Well I'm not that smart but that's exactly what I would do.... I don't see why it's far fetched. I find it hard to believe Trump was ignorant of the NSA's capabilities... he listens to Alex Jones for crying out loud.

Yeah. We'll file this in the same place as your world armageddon meltdown of 2016. LOL.

Just proof we're winning. :)
 
Evidence?



So far I don't think there's evidence that would be grounds for impeachment?

Need some concrete violation of laws (even then it would depend on laws broken). Backroom talks about dropping sanctions or easing relations is not going to be enough.
I didn't mention impeachment. There could be a number of scenarios.
 
Might be of interest:

Aye, ...but they have to muzzle Trump in regards to Russia, because he will drive through the changes he wants... where as Obama was just a weaker figurehead. Some in the US establishment will make Russia such a hot potato in the USA that it will be difficult for Trump to go anywhere near them, without it appearing that he was in bed with them all along... the whole thing will have to be strung out for as long as they can... The issue is Europe, as it has been for ages... the UK doesn't want Europe to fall into the Russian sphere of influence, Germany has it's own interests, as does France.
 
Incredible. CNN points spy cam at Oval Office (that has to be against some kind of law or regulation) and captures a few fuzzy seconds of Bannon pointing his finger at someone... combines this with a few anonymous leaks to come up with a fake news story about Trump's team in disarray.

 
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