The Fortean times and its moderation failure (alt-right, atheist, materialist)

First of all you're obsessed by something called alt.right,

Not obsessed. Check title of thread. Might lead to some clues as to what this thread is about. I am merely one person posting in it on this topic. Please do check the title... I think it will prove informative.

which if it exists at all was dreamt up by leftist ideologues to seal debate against the incursion of common sense and backsliding in the young and impressionable.

Well, this a thread about the alt-right and there some supporters of it here so perhaps you should discuss with them and tell them your theory. I cannot speak to it and it interests me not at all. Perhaps they will chime in with an opinion on your theory.

If such a thing is more than internet chatter in search of a neologism, I seriously don't think it's the royal road to fascism much less Nazism. Both of those are in rude good health without equating social conservatism with the far right.

But then, you WOULD say that wouldn't you?

Secondly unless you're a member of a latter day cult like Trinitarianism, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are one in the same, a divine mystery for Christians but one that supports Christ the Nazarene and the creator of the universe as indivisible. We can debate the to and fro with scripture tennis but it amounts to something very like I've just said.

Or does it? For you it does I agree. But you might not be the benchmark.

Thirdly, to forgive the suicide bombers requires acknowledging their actions in their entirety, not merely as generalised victims, victimising. The Manchester bomber filled a jacket of explosives with "dockyard confetti" to reduce adolescent young women to small parts and strike a blow at Western decadence and reserve himself a coterie of his own intact virgins. He may have had a lousy life, he may have been bullied by a militaristic brand of Islam. He may have been extremely stupid, but not so stupid as to be incapable of unleashing a lethal weapon. It really isn't for me to forgive him because, thank God, the incident is just another headline. What the relatives think is up to them. One internet comment about a subsequent atrocity put it best. We cry, we light candles, we sing songs together, repeat, because the alternative is doing something about it.

So the forgiveness is conditional? You added this to the Sermon on the Mount didn't you? I just rechecked and didn't see any conditions in there.

And what's with the bad Islamic theology? Is not needed even if you got it right (you didn't) - why bother with that diatribe? Interesting.

You might want to ponder your statement of "reserve himself a coterie of his own intact virgins" in the light of the very many female suicide bombers. What is their motivation? It must be different surely? Or do they get male virgins? Or maybe they're Lesbians? Or maybe they have another motivation entirely? And if so why can't this be THE SAME as the male motivation?

So many questions!
 
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So the forgiveness is conditional? You added this to the Sermon on the Mount didn't you? I just rechecked and didn't see any conditions in there.

And what's with the bad Islamic theology? Is not needed even if you got it right (you didn't) - why bother with that diatribe? Interesting.

You might want to ponder your statement of "reserve himself a coterie of his own intact virgins" in the light of the very many female suicide bombers. What is their motivation? It must be different surely? Or do they get male virgins? Or maybe they're Lesbians? Or maybe they have another motivation entirely? And if so why can't this be THE SAME as the male motivation?

So many questions!
Forgiveness requires admission of guilt and a resolution not to repeat the action. That was removed by the way the bomber chose to exit stage left, right and centre, taking a lot of people with him who may have been inclined to forgiveness, and may not, they never got the time to say. I can easily forgive the bomber as one of many victims of overseas policy, multiculturalism, society's attitudes towards young men, but that would suggest every other young Muslim I pass in the street is a potential bomber, and I refuse to do so. I choose to believe the best of people and when they fail so miserably, as in this instance, view them as individuals, not soldiers in a war or victims of societal indifference. People who had a choice. Abedi has no need of my forgiveness.
 
Ah I see, the old 'Nazis were Socialists' schtick.

It's not a "schtick". It's a historical fact.

Most AltRight people are former Libertarians who realized that path leads to irrelevance and death.

Some AltRight people are genuine National Socialists, but they are a small minority.

The AltRight is succeeding because purity spiraling is discouraged. That dynamic tolerance for diversity of ideology combined with hard exclusion and exclusivity based upon the core principles is a winning formula.
 
It's not a "schtick". It's a historical fact.


Yeah just like it's a 'historical fact' that the Nazi camps were full of right-wing enemies of the Nazi Lefties. No Communists. No Marxists. No Bolsheviks. I guess some would say no Jews too.

The AltRight is succeeding because purity spiraling is discouraged.

It's not succeeding. Well... in terms of 'historical facts' like the above I suppose you could say it is. Most sane people are laughing their asses of at the clowns and the circus.

But who needs facts when you can just shout that the opposite is true and there's enough fools to believe you?

Meanwhile Trump is a genius. Vegetarians eat meat. The stupidest people are the wisest. It only flies if you're a good enough liar and people are insane or dumb enough not see through it.
 
You have a quote of Jesus on that? I know it's not in the Sermon on the Mount but any quote will do. Let me know re this.
Catholics are informed by scripture, dogma and tradition. For forgiveness in this life admissions of guilt and the resolve to avoid such actions are prerequisites. We believe the texts require exegesis, not least because they were written in antique languages and a particular context. For those unfamiliar with the bible, the beatitudes go like this:
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Taken literally the Manchester bomber fulfilled a number of these criteria, he was poor in spirit and thirsted for righteousness. He promoted mourning by his actions. Is that what Jesus meant?
 
Yeah just like it's a 'historical fact' that the Nazi camps were full of right-wing enemies of the Nazi Lefties. No Communists. No Marxists. No Bolsheviks. I guess some would say no Jews too.

The Appeal to Ridicule fallacy is just sad. I hoped you were honest, and could discuss in Good Faith.

I do appreciate you confirming my biases. :)
 
One of those Superclass folks just donated another $3b to charity; raising their lifetime total to nearly $30b.
 
So the forgiveness is conditional? You added this to the Sermon on the Mount didn't you? I just rechecked and didn't see any conditions in there.
Can you please quote the specific scripture? My memory tells me that Christ's teaching says you are to forgive people if they sin against you. It is not our business to forgive those who sin against others - it is between the perpetrator, the victim and God and nobody else.
 
Can you please quote the specific scripture? My memory tells me that Christ's teaching says you are to forgive people if they sin against you. It is not our business to forgive those who sin against others - it is between the perpetrator, the victim and God and nobody else.

Err... what has that got to do with anything? We're talking about whether the act of forgiveness has conditions attached to it.
 
Err... what has that got to do with anything? We're talking about whether the act of forgiveness has conditions attached to it.
Forgiveness that carries no penalty is easy. Tarquin, I forgive you for your misguided, pinko tinted sunglasses. There. I didn't feel a thing. If you'd blown up my nearest and dearest at a pop contest I might find it somewhat more challenging. Are you suggesting that makes me a hypocrite?
 
Forgiveness that carries no penalty is easy. Tarquin, I forgive you for your misguided, pinko tinted sunglasses. There. I didn't feel a thing. If you'd blown up my nearest and dearest at a pop contest I might find it somewhat more challenging. Are you suggesting that makes me a hypocrite?

No, I'm suggesting that my understanding of the teaching of Christ is different to yours. I have no need or desire to convince you to abandon your position or 'prove' my own. I read and I take what I take. Presumably you do the same.

One caveat though: because I have no desire to 'prove I am right' then I necessarily question and call people who do have this desire. Usually they are atheists to be fair but some religionists also. As Muhammad said about those that castigated his beliefs in Mecca "You to your way, me to mine.... there need be no discord between us. Go on in your belief".
 
No, I'm suggesting that my understanding of the teaching of Christ is different to yours. I have no need or desire to convince you to abandon your position or 'prove' my own. I read and I take what I take. Presumably you do the same.

One caveat though: because I have no desire to 'prove I am right' then I necessarily question and call people who do have this desire. Usually they are atheists to be fair but some religionists also. As Muhammad said about those that castigated his beliefs in Mecca "You to your way, me to mine.... there need be no discord between us. Go on in your belief".
Or as Jesus said of those who won't listen, shake the dust from your feet as you leave.
 
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