Mod+ Why Do So Many Abductions Seem Like OBEs?

#21
The only thing that I wonder about is the fact that a lot of times if things get too emotional--you get too scared or too excited in the case of an OBE, most folks will pop "back into their body".
The reports I get and ime is that it isn't so much the emotion as it is the emotion re-focuses on the physical body. Once that happens, a return is almost assured.

Maybe it is different if you are in the middle of a sleep paralysis episode, I'm not sure. So when you read about these long encounters where people are operated on and they go nuts with fear and then the calm down and they have a tour of the ship and the the alien floats them back down to the bed… Maybe they are just natural OBE talents.
Who knows. I don't. :)
 
#23
That's pretty much how I view it. It's also why I don't like the whole physical vs non-physical debate. I lean towards viewing "physical" as crystallized energy, or a denser embodiment/manifestation of energy, and consciousness as a more rarefied, ethereal form of energy. But, it's all energy, the highest and most powerful form being perhaps, Love. That's also why I don't like the whole materialism debate. Basically, materialists claim everything is made up of matter and energy. So, this means materialists have a narrow view of what "energy" really is, imho, and then proponents have to come up with something that is beyond energy, which I'm not sure is possible. So, the debate has been set up in a way neither side can win, leaving us with incessant debate that never ends.
Wow - would you expand that a bit - I mean do you feel you could measure the ethereal energy in Joules? I have always assumed that psychic energy was a totally distinct concept from physical energy.

David
 
#24
Wow - would you expand that a bit - I mean do you feel you could measure the ethereal energy in Joules? I have always assumed that psychic energy was a totally distinct concept from physical energy.

David
That's what Parnia seems to think. At some point, I suspect we can't measure it in that conventional kind of way. I think energy will end up doing something weird, kinda like speed does at (c) the speed of light. Energy would have been around "before" spacetime, so I'm not sure what that would mean for the nature of it. However, there are things like Kirlian photography, which supposedly "detects" the human aura. If that's for real, it indicates we can get a little ways and maybe Parnia will have some success.
 
#25
At some point, I suspect we can't measure it in that conventional kind of way. I think energy will end up doing something weird, kinda like speed does at (c) the speed of light. Energy would have been around "before" spacetime, so I'm not sure what that would mean for the nature of it.
The Theosophists and highest level astral travelers report that energy - and all form - seizes to exist in any state that we might recognize.

Living within the confines of present 21st century language, and Einstein, it is relevant to associate energy, matter and light (electromagnetism) ie. frequency (vibration) and how these properties create matter, physically and lower-mid astrally. Measuring it in joules would be the resultant of E=mc{squared}

The astrotheologist will be quick to point out the relationship between bent light or light entering through our atmosphere and the etymology of the word "angle" to "angel", the photon, the pineal gland, etc.

Here is Bill Donahue's...

http://www.prometheanreach.com/billdonahue

...response when I claimed he was "reaching" on the angel-angle-light etymology in the New Testament - capitalization and punctuation as it appeared in the email...

"YOU CORRECTLY SAID I WAS REACHING
I SAY CORRECT BECAUSE I AM INTERPRETING GREEK MYTHOLOGY
AND IF YOU DO NOT REACH YOU CANNOT FIND.

IF YOU DO NOT REACH YOU WILL TAKE THE STORIES LITERALLY

FIRST: I WANT TO PRESENT FOR YOU THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION
AND ORIGIN OF THE WORD ANGLE
an·gle
2 [ang-guhl] Show IPA verb,an·gled, an·gling, noun
verb (used without object)
1.
to fish with hook and line.
2.
to attempt to get something by sly or artful means; fish: toangle for a compliment.
noun
3.
Archaic. a fishhook or fishing tackle.
Origin:
before 900; Middle English v. angelen, noun angel, angul, OldEnglish angel, angul; cognate with Frisian,
Dutch angel, Old Saxon,Old High German angul (> German Angel ), Old Norse ǫngull; Greekankýlos bent,
Sanskrit ankuśá- hook; akin to Old English anga, OldHigh German ango, Latin uncus, Greek ónkos hook;
relation, if any,to Latin angulus angle1 not clear

YOU SEE BEFORE 900 THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE WORD ANGLE TO ANGELEN MIDDLE ENGLISH
AND ANGEL OLD ENGLISH. AND YOU SEE OTHER CONNECTIONS.

I WANT YOU TO NOTICE THE CONNECTION OF ANGLE TO THE LATIN ANGULUS

NOW LET US LOOK AT THE ETYMOLOGY FOR ANGEL

angel (n.)

14c. fusion of Old English engel (with hard -g-) and Old French angele, both from Latin angelus, from Greek angelos"messenger, envoy, one that announces," possibly related to angaros "mounted courier," both from an unknown Oriental word (Watkins compares Sanskrit ajira- "swift;" Klein suggests Semitic sources). Used in Scriptural translations for Hebrew mal'akh (yehowah) "messenger (of Jehovah)," from base l-'-k "to send." An Old English word for it was aerendgast, literally "errand-spirit."

NOW WE SEE A CONNECTION TO THE LATIN ANGELUS

LET US CONSIDER, WHAT IS AN ANGEL?

an·gel
ˈānjəl/
noun
  1. 1.
    a spiritual being believed to act as an attendant, agent, or messenger of God, conventionally represented in human form with wings and a long robe.
    "God sent an angel to talk to Gideon"


AN ANGEL IS AN ATTENDANT OR MESSENGER OF GOD.
THE HEBREW WORD IS MALAKH WHICH MEANS MESSENGER
IF WE LOOK IN THE BIBLE WE SEE THAT GOD IS NOT A MAN
GOD IS LIGHT

IF GOD IS LIGHT AND AN ANGEL IS A MESSENGER OF GOD IT WOULD
BE REASONABLE TO CONSIDER THAT AN ANGEL IS LIGHT

WE HAVE FURTHER CONFIRMATION FOR THIS ASSUMPTION WITH
THE SCRIPTURE 2Cor 11:14 ANGEL OF LIGHT
IF AN ANGEL IS A LIGHT MESSENGER OF GOD
AND IF IN SCIENCE A MESSENGER PARTICLE IS A PHOTON
THEN THE ANGEL OF LIGHT WOULD BE AN ANGLE OF LIGHT WHICH IS A PHOTON

PHOTONS ARE LIGHT WAVES THAT ENTER THE EARTH ON AN ANGLE
OF COURSE THIS DOES NOT PROVE ANYTHING BUT PROVING THINGS IS NOT WHAT I DO
WHAT I DO FEEL IT DOES DO IS BRING A BIT A COMMON SENSE INTO THE
BIBLICAL STORY.

WOULD IT BE REASONABLE TO CONSIDER THAT AN ANGEL IS A MAN
WHO HAS WINGS AND WEARS A WHITE ROBE AND FLYS DOWN TO MEET WITH PEOPLE
OR

WOULD IT BE MORE REASONABLE TO CONSIDER THAT AN ANGEL IS AN ANGLE OF
LIGHT PHOTON WHICH IS ABSORBED INTO THE HUMAN BODY THROUGH EXCITEMENT
OF ELECTRONS IN THE PINEAL GLAND.

SO IF WE ARE TO CONSIDER WHAT AN ANGEL WOULD BE WHEN READING THE
BIBLE WE MIGHT REASONABLY CONCLUDE THAT IT WOULD BE A FORM OF LIGHT.
AS A FORM OF LIGHT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A PHOTON WHICH IS AN ANGLE
OF LIGHT MESSENGER PARTICLE, OR ANGEL OF LIGHT MESSENGER OF GOD
SINCE I HAVE NO DOCTRINES I DO NOT PUT THIS OUT TO BE BELIEVED BUT SIMPLY
TO BE CONSIDERED AND I FEEL IT IS A REASONABLE CONSIDERATION

THANK YOU FOR WRITING

BILL http://www.hiddenmeanings.com
 
#26
The Theosophists and highest level astral travelers report that energy - and all form - seizes to exist in any state that we might recognize.

Living within the confines of present 21st century language, and Einstein, it is relevant to associate energy, matter and light (electromagnetism) ie. frequency (vibration) and how these properties create matter, physically and lower-mid astrally. Measuring it in joules would be the resultant of E=mc{squared}

The astrotheologist will be quick to point out the relationship between bent light or light entering through our atmosphere and the etymology of the word "angle" to "angel", the photon, the pineal gland, etc.
Can you put this in another way Tyler? I get a general notion of what you're trying to say but the language is a bit vague to grasp it properly.

Jules
 
#27
@Jules
There was a question "do you feel you could measure the ethereal energy in Joules?" and I suggested that since energy is a function of matter and light i.e to say if light carries energy and momentum then it could be measure in joules...assuming one could figure out a way to measure ethereal energy and that there are no other ethereal physics at play. ;) I have now come to the end of my training in earthly physics.

So I wandered off into the astrotheological, allegorical interpretation of light, angles of light = angels of light and the photon from passages in the New Testament. This is a back entrance way of further attaching the concept of energy and light to God/Creator using the NT as a basis.

Energy states aka up-down vibrational states are common to the OBE/astral travel and "markers" defining astral dimensions and planes, lower from mid to higher; lower to mid to higher rates of vibrations.

Which leads us back to light which is frequency based, visible and invisible; red at the low end, violet the upper end of the visible ranges (frequencies) perceived as color. Btw, I believe this explains why in many, many accounts of the afterlife discarnates are seen in ascending colors which attest to their level of spirituality (compassion, uncompromising love, etc.) Red auras, violet robes yada yada.

You will understand the pineal gland/thrid eye chakra concept and vibrational states (kundalini shakti); the concept of the PG being center of psychic awareness in the human mind and a photon receptor.

...the pineal gland is lined with cells that function just like the rods and cones in the retina of the eye.
Electrically, the pineal gland is wired into the brain just like the eye, via a “phototransduction cascade.” Some scientists have concluded there may be photons releasing inside the pineal gland that are picked up much like the eye...
Rounding back and summing up...the interconnectivity of light, matter, energy; consciousness, meditation and altered states of reality?

Any better? :eek: :D
 
#28
@Jules
There was a question "do you feel you could measure the ethereal energy in Joules?" and I suggested that since energy is a function of matter and light i.e to say if light carries energy and momentum then it could be measure in joules...assuming one could figure out a way to measure ethereal energy and that there are no other ethereal physics at play. ;) I have now come to the end of my training in earthly physics.

So I wandered off into the astrotheological, allegorical interpretation of light, angles of light = angels of light and the photon from passages in the New Testament. This is a back entrance way of further attaching the concept of energy and light to God/Creator using the NT as a basis.

Energy states aka up-down vibrational states are common to the OBE/astral travel and "markers" defining astral dimensions and planes, lower from mid to higher; lower to mid to higher rates of vibrations.

Which leads us back to light which is frequency based, visible and invisible; red at the low end, violet the upper end of the visible ranges (frequencies) perceived as color. Btw, I believe this explains why in many, many accounts of the afterlife discarnates are seen in ascending colors which attest to their level of spirituality (compassion, uncompromising love, etc.) Red auras, violet robes yada yada.

You will understand the pineal gland/thrid eye chakra concept and vibrational states (kundalini shakti); the concept of the PG being center of psychic awareness in the human mind and a photon receptor.



Rounding back and summing up...the interconnectivity of light, matter, energy; consciousness, meditation and altered states of reality?

Any better? :eek: :D

I think I get what you're saying. The kundalini energy I experience in psychic states exhausts me. When I'm fully charged there's a 'scary' zone around me that psychics need to stay clear of because of the psychic field effect. They will also end up exhausted, and very quickly. So does it have a calorific value? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe I take them from crystallised towards ethereal?
 
#29
The kundalini energy I experience in psychic states exhausts me. When I'm fully charged there's a 'scary' zone around me that psychics need to stay clear of because of the psychic field effect. They will also end up exhausted, and very quickly. So does it have a calorific value? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe I take them from crystallised towards ethereal?
I posted in the NDE/OBE thread that if I "miss" and OBE - when all the pre-exit OBE energy properties are there (vibrations, increased heart and breathing rates, static electricity, etc.) and I fail to "go", I have this day long experience of those properties. chuck.drake thought it was kundalini-like and I agreed although I have only experienced kundalini energy states during meditation which resulted in an OBE.

This idea that there is a tie-in between the ethereal (spirit) body (the one that exists in the ethereal plane not the astral or energy body of the OBE) and our physical body follows the theme of "as above, so below", within you-without you and the commonalities between the lower and mid astral levels and the physical world. That is to say, the physical world is an incomplete duplicate of the ethereal one.

To make the case for energy sharing or transformation/transmutation would logically follow?

Does it? I think the testimonies from the spirit world and from altered states of consciousness (astral travel) say exactly that.

A stunning piece of work from George Harrison, and still a capstone in the use of Indian music in the pop/psychedelic/spiritual realm, George nails it lyrically, spiritually, philosophically and musically.

 
#30
I posted in the NDE/OBE thread that if I "miss" and OBE - when all the pre-exit OBE energy properties are there (vibrations, increased heart and breathing rates, static electricity, etc.) and I fail to "go", I have this day long experience of those properties. chuck.drake thought it was kundalini-like and I agreed although I have only experienced kundalini energy states during meditation which resulted in an OBE.

This idea that there is a tie-in between the ethereal (spirit) body (the one that exists in the ethereal plane not the astral or energy body of the OBE) and our physical body follows the theme of "as above, so below", within you-without you and the commonalities between the lower and mid astral levels and the physical world. That is to say, the physical world is an incomplete duplicate of the ethereal one.

To make the case for energy sharing or transformation/transmutation would logically follow?

Does it? I think the testimonies from the spirit world and from altered states of consciousness (astral travel) say exactly that.

A stunning piece of work from George Harrison, and still a capstone in the use of Indian music in the pop/psychedelic/spiritual realm, George nails it lyrically, spiritually, philosophically and musically.
I'm getting a sense of the way you communicate. I know how living with energy effects how you communicate. At times I lose my words and ability to construct sentences. Can I make a suggestion? When you share an idea with us you experience it like a stone skipping across the smooth water of the lake. Its flow is continuous from beginning to end. But I think others may experience it like they are viewing the pebble from beneath the surface of the water - so they only see the points when it breaks the surface of the water. To them the journey of the pebble is disconnected. What if you were to imagine your pebble was travelling beneath the surface of the water. It wouldn't go as far or as fast but it would leave a more long-lasting impression upon the collective consciousness of the lake, so in fact the forum would go father and faster. It requires more effort to make pebbles go through water though.

Jules
 
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#31
I'm getting a sense of the way you communicate. I know how living with energy effects how you communicate. At times I lose my words and ability to construct sentences. Can I make a suggestion? When you share an idea with us you experience it like a stone skipping across the smooth water of the lake. Its flow is continuous from beginning to end. But I think others may experience it like they are viewing the pebble from beneath the surface of the water - so they only see the points when in breaks the surface of the water. To them the journey of the pebble is disconnected. What if you were to imagine your pebble was travelling beneath the surface of the water. It wouldn't go as far or as fast but it would leave a more long-lasting impression upon the collective consciousness of the forum, so in fact the forum would go father and faster. It requires more effort to make pebbles go through water though.

Jules
Thanks for that!
 
#33
Jules. Do you have any information about the kind of stuff going on in China?
I contacted Dean as he has alluded to the research in Supernormal and in the media but he was rather vague in his response.. There must be reasons to protect the research I guess.

"This is mostly from personal contacts in those countries. I'm aware of a few publications, but none of those are available online."
 
#34
Maybe this will help.

Can Science Explain The Yoga Superpowers?
There are few scientists in the world who know more about psychic phenomena than Dean Radin, PhD. He has been engaged in research on the frontiers of consciousness for more than two decades, and has written several books on the subject. His latest book, Supernormal, examines the extraordinary powers of the Siddhis in the yoga tradition and then explains these abilities from a science perspective. If you thought that the superpowers you heard about were simply myth or exaggerations, tune in
http://www.foreverfamilyfoundation.org/SOLRarchives/BBS2013/Signs_of_Life_2013-09-26.mp3

I tried my best to be lucid, Jules. ;)
 
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