William Ramsey, Lawyering Christianity |497|

#82
Anita Moorjani – NDE

ANITA: In that NDE state, I felt like I was connected to everything. I was everything, and everything was me. It’s something that is so hard to explain, because the right words just don’t exist. It felt like there is no separation, until we come into physical life and look at the world through the mind. In fact, it felt like the separation IS the mind.

https://ndestories.org/anita-moorjani/
 
#83
Common Elements in the Experience of God During an NDE

Interconnectivity

Unlike many religions that see God as a separate entity from the more humble and fallible creation of man, near-death experiencers commonly express complete oneness with God.

“I didn’t see God with eyes, but God was everything and everywhere. There was no separation felt (Long, 2016).”

https://thesearchforlifeafterdeath....-the-nature-of-god-in-near-death-experiences/
 
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#86
I don't mean to be dense, but if something is truly non-dual then it cannot exclude anything and thus must allow for duality, right?
it is a tricky a concept because our brains and conditioning are wired for duality. It is because we define arbitrary boundaries and put labels on things that make it difficult to grasp at first.

A easy analogy is a magnet, it has polarity, north and south. But it is one. You can't just have a north or just a south. Both are required to define the one.

Just as a coin needs a front and a back by definition.

You would not understand what straight would mean if their was no curved, you could not see these words if the background was also black. For something to be anything there must be something it is not.

This may help, and help to explain how individuality is not inconsistent. Nor inconsistent with survival, in fact it is exactly what is commonly described. It is this realization that is the mystical experience.

 
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#87
That took like 10 minutes to find.

AKA transcendent oneness. :)

I could find NDE accounts in which the NDErs claim that they were in Hell. Does that mean that the goal of spiritual evolution is Hell?

NDEs are subjective experiences. Furthermore, NDEs with the oneness experience are the minority. Moreover, those NDErs tell that their individuality is retained during the experience and every NDEr has returned from the experience with their normal everyday self intact. NDEs are only a part of psychical research and they are not even the best survival evidence. Reincarnation reseach and mental mediumship are far superior in this regard.

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/criticizing-the-oneness-of-transcendental-idealism.3140/

Does “Oneness” in the Afterlife Mean Loss of Individuality?
For those who accept the strong evidence that consciousness survives death, there remains a very big question relative to the nature of that consciousness – namely, does the soul retain its individuality or does it merge into some kind of Oneness with the Creative Force and in so doing lose its individuality? If the soul does lose its individuality, is such a state any more desirable than total extinction at physical death?
 
#89
I could find NDE accounts in which the NDErs claim that they were in Hell. Does that mean that the goal of spiritual evolution is Hell?

NDEs are subjective experiences. Furthermore, NDEs with the oneness experience are the minority. Moreover, those NDErs tell that their individuality is retained during the experience and every NDEr has returned from the experience with their normal everyday self intact. NDEs are only a part of psychical research and they are not even the best survival evidence. Reincarnation reseach and mental mediumship are far superior in this regard.

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/criticizing-the-oneness-of-transcendental-idealism.3140/

Does “Oneness” in the Afterlife Mean Loss of Individuality?
Sorry mate this is nonsense and is just shifting the goal posts combined with strawman fallacies. It has to be said at this point.

ANITA: In that NDE state, I felt like I was connected to everything. I was everything, and everything was me. It’s something that is so hard to explain, because the right words just don’t exist. It felt like there is no separation, until we come into physical life and look at the world through the mind. In fact, it felt like the separation IS the mind.
It could not have been stated any clearer. This is exactly what you said was inconsistent. It is a perfect description of the non dual.

You need to read more carefully, it is not the loss of individuality! You are equating the superficial ego with the self while mistaking non dualism with monism. It is that simple.

Also It is the non dual traditions such as Hinduism that speak of advaita that were the first to even mention reincarnation thousands of years ago!!!

As originally stated and was immediately obvious from your first post is that our definitions of these things do not match is all. Rather than trying to understand you are persisting with preconceived concepts and projecting them.

It is clear you are not willing. So sorry If I do not engage further. I am not interested in a pissing match over things that myself and countless others have personally experienced many times for thousands of years.

I recommend you at least try to understand where someone is coming from before taking a adversarial position straight out of the gate.

Oh! I just noticed your signature. "To “become one with God” is to die." now I understand your baffling behavior. This really is your religion/dogma!
 
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#90
The ego. It is a mask, it is a construction, it is an illusion, It is self thought.

It is in part responsible in the feeling and illusion of separateness!

This video is very appropriate given the current context.

 
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#91
NDE: I WAS ONE WITH GOD CONSCIOUSNESS

I was conscious again and I could see the stars all around me. And suddenly the distance between those stars and me was reduced to nothing. I was aware that I was the stars, the universe and consciousness. I found my Presence here. Under these stars. I saw everything as a whole and connected. And it was overwhelming and normal all at once. I felt such immense joy! I was part of this!
....
....the enormity and interconnectedness of everything was an all-consuming feeling. I was one with God Consciousness. I was still aware of myself as me, but the super-expanded version. The version that knew all and saw all.
https://www.iands.org/research/nde-...ts/1431-i-was-one-with-god-consciousness.html
 
#92
Robyn NDE

All went dark and weightless, an infinite bluish purple perhaps, and amazing sparkling particles connected everything. I was home and I was so appreciative of how real human life seemed! I zoomed to the ceiling and 'faced' all directions simultaneously. I was aware of my body below and felt zero remorse, attachment, fear, or sadness for leaving. I became one with all in existence, yet, I had a firm knowing that I was me.
Our carbon-based senses were designed to perceive carbon-based reality, and it is really a spectacular illusion! My true nature is one with all, and I am God. And so is everyone and everything else.
During the entire out of body experience I was omnipotent, omni-present, aware and one with all of existence.
I felt united or one with the world.
https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1robyn_nde.html
 
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#93
Rachel E NDE

Do you believe in an afterlife after your experience? An afterlife definitely exists Yes What we describe as a soul, it lives on, but not separated from other souls. It is Not like being human-without-the-body. The phrase is "going back to G*d". Yes, if G*d isn't sitting on a throne with a white beard. We are separated here. Life after death is returning back to that from which we have been separated from in order to live as a human in the body given to you for life here on this earth.
Did you feel a sense of harmony or unity with the universe? I felt united or one with the world
https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1rachel_e_nde.html
 
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#94
ALL IS EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING IS ONE

I got excited to return, and thought how much I wanted to remember the knowledge, so I could explain it to others, ease fears of death, and inspire goodness. I thought that maybe I could trick them; I would think of some words that perfectly described the knowledge in it's simplest form, and then remember the words. Then I'd associate the words and remember the knowledge. I came up with perfect words, all is everything, everything is one. I was so happy with my choice of words; I knew that I would remember. Simultaneously, I drew the deepest of breaths into my human body and was hauled from the podium through the tunnel and back into my body with enormous force.

https://www.iands.org/research/nde-.../543-all-is-everything-everything-is-one.html
 
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#95
The ego. It is a mask, it is a construction, it is an illusion, It is self thought.

It is in part responsible in the feeling and illusion of separateness!

This video is very appropriate given the current context.

Don't want to distract from the line of conversation too much, but this guy is a bit of a 'spiritual grifter' with an ego (ironically enough). Quite common in that 'community'. I don't trust him one bit to be honest. I find those that blabber on about ego this and ego that, to be a bit trite nowadays. It's like 'how to be a spiritual person for dummies'. IMO. And I don't even think that it's the right thing to focus on for much of the time. Certainly not to the extent that it has been done. Seems fishy to me. I got the feeling eventually that constant talk about the ego is a red flag for someone who thinks they are very spiritual, but they are just lying to themselves. And possibly even letting darker 'things' into them, like a trojan horse.

I'll add to the convo LS and others, that ego is a tool to be used. Get rid of it at ones own peril, because then you'll be food for the predators that roam this earthly realm.
 
#96
Don't want to distract from the line of conversation too much, but this guy is a bit of a 'spiritual grifter' with an ego (ironically enough). Quite common in that 'community'. I don't trust him one bit to be honest. I find those that blabber on about ego this and ego that, to be a bit trite nowadays. It's like 'how to be a spiritual person for dummies'. IMO. And I don't even think that it's the right thing to focus on for much of the time. Certainly not to the extent that it has been done. Seems fishy to me. I got the feeling eventually that constant talk about the ego is a red flag for someone who thinks they are very spiritual, but they are just lying to themselves. And possibly even letting darker 'things' into them, like a trojan horse.

I'll add to the convo LS and others, that ego is a tool to be used. Get rid of it at ones own peril, because then you'll be food for the predators that roam this earthly realm.
Ok, I had never seen him before this, so ill take your word on that. Still the information dovetails and is true in my experience and nothing being said is unique. It is exactly what I was inferring, which is hardly a coincidence. (see below).

I would say that it is impossible not to talk about the ego when speaking of non duality as it is the "I". It is unavoidable. That is like being wary of psychology all together because it is the primary concern. It simply has to be spoken of. It is crucial. Talking about it does not mean the "I" is out of control, especially when it is acknowledging it.

Don't get me wrong, the ego is necessary to function in this reality and society. From the experience of ego dissolution and experience of unity comes a piece that can be folded into everyday life. It helps immensely in finding a balance, spirituality is useless if you can't apply it to daily life.
 
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#98
Excellent. Lets work together to find a better name than "Christ consciousness". May take some time, but I'm in 100%.
My next question would be: Was the firepit ever really invented? OR was it learned?
If it was learned, wouldn't that imply that it the idea/framework existed before it was discovered?
Then, if you agree with me that things exist before they're discovered, then why wouldn't this apply to discoveries of moral leaders?

And by no means am i trying to teach something. I'm trying to figure this out.
I'm currently struggling with Dr. Jordan Peterson's return to mainstream and trying to separate his teachings from his personal challenges. AKA Separate the art from the artist.
Nothing against addiction (I'm only interested because i identify thoroughly, aka "you spot it, you got it"), but rather I have difficulty not asterisking him after the fact.

I think this is actually a HUGE issue.. How to we celebrate the creation without blanket celebrating the lifestyle of the creator?
Your line of inquiry leads to teachings! I like your approach. Can we draw a parallel between the moral leaders and those who actually invent practical applications for our lives? Is there a link? Furthermore, is it possible for our moral leaders to become completely astray from our inventors? Also, what are the consequences of this phenomenon?

Let me tell you my personal opinion first: I think it is idiocy to separate the art from the artist. I don't know what people are trying to accomplish when they do this mental exorcise, but for me, it seems to be a similar kind of mental gymnastics when people try to separate wheat from chaff. One is not more necessary than the other. The fucked up attributes of the artist is what helps cultivate the art. Both need to be appreciated. There is no wheat without chaff.

I don't think things exist before they were discovered. Things always exist, but the application of such things, and how they benefit us, remains unknown before the discover opens the door to such things.
 
#99
Sorry mate this is nonsense and is just shifting the goal posts combined with strawman fallacies. It has to be said at this point.

You call my arguments nonsense, because you can't answer to them. Obviously you didn't even read the links I provided in my previous post. Your claim of shifting the goal posts and using straw man fallacies is clearly false. You can post as many quotations from NDErs as you want, but it doesn't change these facts I mentioned in my last post:

NDEs are subjective experiences. Furthermore, NDEs with the oneness experience are the minority. Moreover, those NDErs tell that their individuality is retained during the experience and every NDEr has returned from the experience with their normal everyday self intact. NDEs are only a part of psychical research and they are not even the best survival evidence. Reincarnation reseach and mental mediumship are far superior in this regard.


William Bray NDE

We are not a great melting pot, a collective. We are individuals, and always have been and always will be, for infinity.
If one person on the other side of infinity knows the answer, then so do you, but we are not ‘all one.’
Each of us is unique. Without this uniqueness , there would not be any reason whatsoever for there being more than one being.

Emanuel Swedenborg
….you will never lose your identity

Silver Birch
The ultimate is not attainment of Nirvana. All spiritual progress is toward increasing individuality. You do not become less of an individual, you become more of an individual.

Ignoring the survival evidence such as reincarnation research and mediumship, and quoting NDE accounts with the oneness experience is cherry picking.
 
You call my arguments nonsense, because you can't answer to them. Obviously you didn't even read the links I provided in my previous post. Your claim of shifting the goal posts and using straw man fallacies is clearly false. You can post as many quotations from NDErs as you want, but it doesn't change these facts I mentioned in my last post:





William Bray NDE






Emanuel Swedenborg



Silver Birch



Ignoring the survival evidence such as reincarnation research and mediumship, and quoting NDE accounts with the oneness experience is cherry picking.
Raimo, what is your argument?
 
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