William Ramsey, Lawyering Christianity |497|

Ok, I had never seen him before this, so ill take your word on that. Still the information dovetails and is true in my experience and nothing being said is unique. It is exactly what I was inferring, which is hardly a coincidence. (see below).

I would say that it is impossible not to talk about the ego when speaking of non duality as it is the "I". It is unavoidable. That is like being wary of psychology all together because it is the primary concern. It simply has to be spoken of. It is crucial. Talking about it does not mean the "I" is out of control, especially when it is acknowledging it.

Don't get me wrong, the ego is necessary to function in this reality and society. From the experience of ego dissolution and experience of unity comes a piece that can be folded into everyday life. It helps immensely in finding a balance, spirituality is useless if you can't apply it to daily life.
It's funny. I can clearly see the benefits of non-duality and the wisdom of this. It makes sense to me, but also holding onto a certain element of groundedness in this life is also smart.

I believe that once upon a time when I was 21 (10 years ago), I went through an ego death. It was brought on by association with a Gurdjieffian group and one of channeled material. At the time, I fully was invested in it.

It was absolutely soul shattering. I mean that. Every little sin and harm I done to another was brought up, and I was made to feel fully responsibly for each and every one, as if I was actually dying! When I hear about shamans talk about stripping the flesh from bones in a metaphorical sense, I know exactly what is meant by that. The so called 'dark night of the soul'. It's really an unbelievable experience. However, I think I was better off for it. It destroyed whatever false structure that was holding me back and allowed a more genuine expression of my essence to take control of my life.

So why do I now defend ego? Like you said LS, it's necessary to operate in this reality and society. I had to reintegrate a solid ego to protect myself from predators. So I'm just weary of those who distribute material that plays on this long and trite 'ego bashing' thing. Because as I said, we need it to survive and function in this reality. I believe that the material is linked to the spiritual, so by 'denying the ego' in a simplistic sense, we only fail ourselves, and even potentially feed the demiurge.

Just throwing out thoughts.
 
But hey, LS, talk to me about being 'one'.

I have experienced many times, a state of being the same as, but individually unique, with some other entity. A person, a thought form, the universe, whatever.....what is this? It can be brought on by consumption of certain types of alcohol, psychedelics I presume, MDMA, great team work etc. But also normal life, but clearly much less than previously was enjoyed by our ancestors.

I want to be able to retain my individuality, free from predators, and only engaging with sincere and genuine souls in this manner. This seems to be the crux of our reality and my own experience. I always have looked for this, and I seem to be quite sensitive to 'fakes' to this agenda.
 
Well this series of posts of mine have been my way of trying to integrate and intellectualize something that I have had countless experiences of since a teenager and have been trying to understand for my entire life. I mean I would have these glimpses of something I only felt but could not describe. It is my kind of my life's work in a way. I have been trying to integrate this for so long with self reflection, psychedelics, meditation, all types of dabbling in esoteric and occult things as well as the right hand path religious traditions. I mean I have been looking everywhere to understand something that was directly experienced but not actually understood and ultimately remained unrealized.

Until today!

So I would like to start by apologizing for being somewhat noisy. But I have yet some more noise to share a lot as you can see, it is as much as it is for my own unpacking and my own processing as it is to share what has been the greatest light bulb moment of my life. So, well I don't know what else to do with it. So if it makes any sense that is awesome. Otherwise you can just consider it entertainment, or the warning signs of insanity if you like.

Since my mind which is somewhat obsessive compulsive, I mean, I really have to focus on paying attention to the so called "real" world. I tend to get lost with my head in the clouds or more precisely one cloud. It makes me pretty good at what I do, but it can easily derail if I don't keep things in check. As a quite typical occurrence to this I have been constantly grappling with these questions non stop, with not much sleep actually and when I did wake it has been the first thought in my mind. I really didn't know why it was presenting so strongly with me. This is my curse. I needed to really and truly understand, I know it on the surface, but something is missing. Why can't I explain it? It really bugged me. If I can't explain it. Then I don't really understand it either. What am I talking about exactly? it just sort of sounds like what has been thrown around before and it really does.

When thinking of everything that has been said on this including what is not said :)

That chain of thoughts that have been consistently circling in my head uncontrollably culminated to a surprising spontaneous satori experience in me.

Then I understood, And I mean absolutely. That gap I was trying to bridge is gone. as like everything else that gap was a illusion, a imposed mental construct, the more I tried try to answer it in any conceptual terms, the more I would bury the answer that has always been there. This was the problem and the key.

In a instant there it was, undeniable, It is so simple I could not believe how I just could not realize it truly. It actually can not be any other way, there is no way out of it. It is so perfectly obvious and is hiding in plain sight. And the implications are so profound for everything, it literally pulls the veil away. This is so huge, it is how we actually perceive the entire universe, I mean I have been thinking about this stuff for decades. But this was something else completely. It was a realization beyond any terms or anything that can be said, it is just there existing as it is.

So I can't tell you in a way that can be intellectually defined, because as soon as you do it is lost again.

Instead I will relate some impressions and similar ideas. If you really ponder these things, dig deep into these things. I think it will at least give a glimpse of what it is, by the only means, direct experience.

You just can't do it by way of concepts or language. Terms, concepts are the things between pure awareness and the self. The manufactured duality. This is the illusion that is Maya. The illusion of separateness and The illusion of a objective universe outside of awareness. Exactly like the ego we create between our minds and our true self. It is a fake.

It all kind of collapsed when all these things were running through my mind, I lost my sense of time, I lost almost everything I had defined as myself. All that was left was pure awareness, for the first time ever i was having this same experience as a result of a sort of thought experiment. WTF!

The world was instantly transformed I did not see objects I only saw differentiations of colour, I could see how my eyes gave the sense of depth, which I could recognized that it had been conditioned into my awareness as a infant. Somehow all the filters were gone, I have had ego death before but this was so different. I lost all things I had not even realized were there, and it was almost everything. It really was like being a baby again. So much of what i just took for granted was gone. So much related to the way that i projected and organized what was perceived. And it is clear when you look at what is simple raw sensory perception and what is not. The vast everything else that is not simple pure awareness is the mind doing what it does. Much absolutely essential but also unfortunately it separates us from the simple truth. The veil between the ego and the self and the vail between the self and what is perceived, which is the phenomenal reality of existence. Sorry I am going to use these words a lot.

What was apparent straight away is that there is nothing to vision beyond variations of colour, nothing more. Holy shit! It was clear that just like the ego we project absolutely everything onto what is directly perceived and the self. From this obvious and natural observation. I knew how much was actually informing what is seen. Do you see how significant just this little thing of vision is? How powerful the conditioning defines things is extremely strong. We artificially construct all things between what is and can only ever be direct experience.

So it was like seeing as baby sees the world on its first day on Earth. You see, when you look "out" there (also a construct) all you are actually perceiving are patterns of colors. Yet it is almost impossible to ignore the conditioned organization of that simple feild of colour into objects, classifications and a multitude of any other distinctions. Our brains are duality manufacturing machines!! Even if there was a out there, there are no colours as this is also illusory. The baby doesn't see a flower or a ball, it sees a patch of colour, it sees where something is and where something else isn't and nothing more, as it does with sound, touch and smell. There is only what is and can only be defined with what isn't. Everything else is a construct in between the self and what is perceived and I mean everything, just think about it. Just as we do with the ego, we do with the entirety of existence. And it is just a phony as the ego. It is not real it is actually only what we project onto it that creates the very insistent feeling of separateness and the illusion of a objective reality outside of awareness.

And really guys that is the mystery. When you really get this, I mean really get the full implications of what this means. You will have a shift in consciousness I guarantee. When you get it you will see that there is no way it can be anything other than what it is. I have been feeling it trickle into every part of my being.

I can not emphasize how this has effected me. I may mark this day as my actual birthday, when I finally awakened at the age of 51.

There is only the perceiver and what is perceived and what is perceived is defined only by what is and what it isn't. These are intrinsically entwined as a inseparable unified whole. Truly all is the self and the self is in all. Everything else is illusory or what is referred to as Maya.

In a moment I saw everything as it actually was and it is so astounding simple, it is no use even trying to even understand it by intellectualizing it. Using words because that is the root cause of the problem. It can't be done. It can only be experienced directly as pure awareness unfiltered by our logical and systematic egoic way of looking at things that evolved as a natural consequence of the need for survival. The more you seek the further it hides. Stop trying. It can only ever be experienced directly because trying otherwise is the exact reason you will not find it.

It really is like hide and seek. When you realize it, it is like you simply have found what is hiding. It is just there and undeniable. There is no reason to do anymore than that, and you really can't do anymore than that. This is also completely obvious. Things are as they should be. Stop trying and just be what you are, you cant be anything other than that.

I feel I have had a monumental breakthrough, a shift in consciousness I can keep in this appearance of duality. this is so liberating. And a nagging thing that I could never do anything with this profound experiences. There is a letting go of so much that I literally feel like I am walking on air, a enormous something I did not realize I had is gone.

So either an a awakening or I am just currently documenting the chronicles of my descent into madness. It is one or the other. Either is extreme.

So...
There is no objective outside reality beyond awareness. This is a massively unneeded leap that can never be shown as true. It is clearly evident when you remove what is between raw awareness and the self. The only thing is the perceiver and what is perceived this is the inseparable whole of existence that is the self.

It is all the self, it is not a matter of proof, you can't do it. Trying is why you fail. But there is actually nothing else it can possibly be when this is actually realized.

Consciousness is all that exits. There is only a perceiver and what is perceived. The first thought "i am". There is only what is, and what isn't. Both are intrinsic to defining the other, there is no separating them. They are two of a unified and inseparable whole. They are not two, or is non dual.

There is actually nothing beyond this nor can there be. It is all there is, and from this simplicity explodes the miraculous reality that is dancing before us.

The mystery has been in plain view, to simple to be seen. And kind of giggling I would say at our magnificent monkey brains with all of it's deeply complex theoretical constructs probing and puzzling with dualities imposed in language and concepts of things. You can't do it! because that is precisely the thing that conceals what has been in plain view the entire time but beneath the imposed dualities of language and conceptions. So you can see the futility you face, because this is the only way you could hope to solve it. But you can't it is self limiting and the reason it cannot be found. It can only be experienced. It is right there in your consciousness right now. It is just obscured by constructs, necessary and unnecessary, it is hidden as soon as language develops, and the pattern programming begins for the latest intelligent monkey to be able to make sense and survive the jungle.

I have said it before, but I never exactly new the punchline. The truth is so absurd, you are going to have laugh when the curtain closes.

Sorry for the noise and given the message, a entirely too exhaustive attempt to relate what is so exquisitely simple and so profound in scope. I am still kind of in a ecstatic and in a very excited state of mind as you can tell.

I am rambling, As i said it is as much a way for me to process it as it is my need to share. It is nothing more than that. If you can actually take anything from it, or use as a source of stimulating ideas. Then I have given more than I hoped to achieve. So I am not trying to preach or pretend to have any magical keys to heaven or enlightenment. Because again It can't be done in such a way. Believe me it is from the heart and not from a desire to be appearing as anything special I am writing so much because it is so meaningful for me and I have no idea if what I am trying to express is being delivered in a coherent way. Don't worry this feels like a wrap for me. So much less noise. It really is just spinning the wheels, good for fun but don't believe it will get you anywhere you need to go, philosophy, religion, even science. Nope it won't work. You will can only ever have a position that is between pure awareness and then self, so you can reach it by looking anywhere else except within. Try any other way and it will fail, the harder you try the more you fail. There is no other possible result. This is the clear unavoidable conclusion. There is really no destination, there is nothing to be found,, except what is right here and right now, everything you need you already have, if your looking you won't find it because you are it, and you would be just running around looking for yourself.

I am insane or I am not. A inseparable unified whole. :) I guess that dichotomy is up for grabs. :)

And I would not blame anyone for thinking so! It has certainly occurred to me. :)
 
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So it was like seeing as baby sees the world on its first day on Earth. You see, when you look "out" there (also a construct) all you are actually perceiving are patterns of colors. Yet it is almost impossible to ignore the conditioned organization of that simple feild of colour into objects, classifications and a multitude of any other distinctions.
Through this lens, everything you said makes sense to me.

Congrats on the experience and thanks for putting it out there.
 
Through this lens, everything you said makes sense to me.

Congrats on the experience and thanks for putting it out there.
Thanks, I really appreciate that. I can certainly see the looney in it. But it is the culmination of so much for so long of what I have been so invested in. The reason I am here at this forum actually. That is why it looks the way it may look from another's perspective. It has been my holy grail no less.
 
Well this series of posts of mine have been my way of trying to integrate and intellectualize something that I have had countless experiences of since a teenager and have been trying to understand for my entire life. I mean I would have these glimpses of something I only felt but could not describe. It is my kind of my life's work in a way. I have been trying to integrate this for so long with self reflection, psychedelics, meditation, all types of dabbling in esoteric and occult things as well as the right hand path religious traditions. I mean I have been looking everywhere to understand something that was directly experienced but not actually understood and ultimately remained unrealized.

Until today!

So I would like to start by apologizing for being somewhat noisy. But I have yet some more noise to share a lot as you can see, it is as much as it is for my own unpacking and my own processing as it is to share what has been the greatest light bulb moment of my life. So, well I don't know what else to do with it. So if it makes any sense that is awesome. Otherwise you can just consider it entertainment, or the warning signs of insanity if you like.

Since my mind which is somewhat obsessive compulsive, I mean, I really have to focus on paying attention to the so called "real" world. I tend to get lost with my head in the clouds or more precisely one cloud. It makes me pretty good at what I do, but it can easily derail if I don't keep things in check. As a quite typical occurrence to this I have been constantly grappling with these questions non stop, with not much sleep actually and when I did wake it has been the first thought in my mind. I really didn't know why it was presenting so strongly with me. This is my curse. I needed to really and truly understand, I know it on the surface, but something is missing. Why can't I explain it? It really bugged me. If I can't explain it. Then I don't really understand it either. What am I talking about exactly? it just sort of sounds like what has been thrown around before and it really does.

When thinking of everything that has been said on this including what is not said :)

That chain of thoughts that have been consistently circling in my head uncontrollably culminated to a surprising spontaneous satori experience in me.

Then I understood, And I mean absolutely. That gap I was trying to bridge is gone. as like everything else that gap was a illusion, a imposed mental construct, the more I tried try to answer it in any conceptual terms, the more I would bury the answer that has always been there. This was the problem and the key.

In a instant there it was, undeniable, It is so simple I could not believe how I just could not realize it truly. It actually can not be any other way, there is no way out of it. It is so perfectly obvious and is hiding in plain sight. And the implications are so profound for everything, it literally pulls the veil away. This is so huge, it is how we actually perceive the entire universe, I mean I have been thinking about this stuff for decades. But this was something else completely. It was a realization beyond any terms or anything that can be said, it is just there existing as it is.

So I can't tell you in a way that can be intellectually defined, because as soon as you do it is lost again.

Instead I will relate some impressions and similar ideas. If you really ponder these things, dig deep into these things. I think it will at least give a glimpse of what it is, by the only means, direct experience.

You just can't do it by way of concepts or language. Terms, concepts are the things between pure awareness and the self. The manufactured duality. This is the illusion that is Maya. The illusion of separateness and The illusion of a objective universe outside of awareness. Exactly like the ego we create between our minds and our true self. It is a fake.

It all kind of collapsed when all these things were running through my mind, I lost my sense of time, I lost almost everything I had defined as myself. All that was left was pure awareness, for the first time ever i was having this same experience as a result of a sort of thought experiment. WTF!

The world was instantly transformed I did not see objects I only saw differentiations of colour, I could see how my eyes gave the sense of depth, which I could recognized that it had been conditioned into my awareness as a infant. Somehow all the filters were gone, I have had ego death before but this was so different. I lost all things I had not even realized were there, and it was almost everything. It really was like being a baby again. So much of what i just took for granted was gone. So much related to the way that i projected and organized what was perceived. And it is clear when you look at what is simple raw sensory perception and what is not. The vast everything else that is not simple pure awareness is the mind doing what it does. Much absolutely essential but also unfortunately it separates us from the simple truth. The veil between the ego and the self and the vail between the self and what is perceived, which is the phenomenal reality of existence. Sorry I am going to use these words a lot.

What was apparent straight away is that there is nothing to vision beyond variations of colour, nothing more. Holy shit! It was clear that just like the ego we project absolutely everything onto what is directly perceived and the self. From this obvious and natural observation. I knew how much was actually informing what is seen. Do you see how significant just this little thing of vision is? How powerful the conditioning defines things is extremely strong. We artificially construct all things between what is and can only ever be direct experience.

So it was like seeing as baby sees the world on its first day on Earth. You see, when you look "out" there (also a construct) all you are actually perceiving are patterns of colors. Yet it is almost impossible to ignore the conditioned organization of that simple feild of colour into objects, classifications and a multitude of any other distinctions. Our brains are duality manufacturing machines!! Even if there was a out there, there are no colours as this is also illusory. The baby doesn't see a flower or a ball, it sees a patch of colour, it sees where something is and where something else isn't and nothing more, as it does with sound, touch and smell. There is only what is and can only be defined with what isn't. Everything else is a construct in between the self and what is perceived and I mean everything, just think about it. Just as we do with the ego, we do with the entirety of existence. And it is just a phony as the ego. It is not real it is actually only what we project onto it that creates the very insistent feeling of separateness and the illusion of a objective reality outside of awareness.

And really guys that is the mystery. When you really get this, I mean really get the full implications of what this means. You will have a shift in consciousness I guarantee. When you get it you will see that there is no way it can be anything other than what it is. I have been feeling it trickle into every part of my being.

I can not emphasize how this has effected me. I may mark this day as my actual birthday, when I finally awakened at the age of 51.

There is only the perceiver and what is perceived and what is perceived is defined only by what is and what it isn't. These are intrinsically entwined as a inseparable unified whole. Truly all is the self and the self is in all. Everything else is illusory or what is referred to as Maya.

In a moment I saw everything as it actually was and it is so astounding simple, it is no use even trying to even understand it by intellectualizing it. Using words because that is the root cause of the problem. It can't be done. It can only be experienced directly as pure awareness unfiltered by our logical and systematic egoic way of looking at things that evolved as a natural consequence of the need for survival. The more you seek the further it hides. Stop trying. It can only ever be experienced directly because trying otherwise is the exact reason you will not find it.

It really is like hide and seek. When you realize it, it is like you simply have found what is hiding. It is just there and undeniable. There is no reason to do anymore than that, and you really can't do anymore than that. This is also completely obvious. Things are as they should be. Stop trying and just be what you are, you cant be anything other than that.

I feel I have had a monumental breakthrough, a shift in consciousness I can keep in this appearance of duality. this is so liberating. And a nagging thing that I could never do anything with this profound experiences. There is a letting go of so much that I literally feel like I am walking on air, a enormous something I did not realize I had is gone.

So either an a awakening or I am just currently documenting the chronicles of my descent into madness. It is one or the other. Either is extreme.

So...
There is no objective outside reality beyond awareness. This is a massively unneeded leap that can never be shown as true. It is clearly evident when you remove what is between raw awareness and the self. The only thing is the perceiver and what is perceived this is the inseparable whole of existence that is the self.

It is all the self, it is not a matter of proof, you can't do it. Trying is why you fail. But there is actually nothing else it can possibly be when this is actually realized.

Consciousness is all that exits. There is only a perceiver and what is perceived. The first thought "i am". There is only what is, and what isn't. Both are intrinsic to defining the other, there is no separating them. They are two of a unified and inseparable whole. They are not two, or is non dual.

There is actually nothing beyond this nor can there be. It is all there is, and from this simplicity explodes the miraculous reality that is dancing before us.

The mystery has been in plain view, to simple to be seen. And kind of giggling I would say at our magnificent monkey brains with all of it's deeply complex theoretical constructs probing and puzzling with dualities imposed in language and concepts of things. You can't do it! because that is precisely the thing that conceals what has been in plain view the entire time but beneath the imposed dualities of language and conceptions. So you can see the futility you face, because this is the only way you could hope to solve it. But you can't it is self limiting and the reason it cannot be found. It can only be experienced. It is right there in your consciousness right now. It is just obscured by constructs, necessary and unnecessary, it is hidden as soon as language develops, and the pattern programming begins for the latest intelligent monkey to be able to make sense and survive the jungle.

I have said it before, but I never exactly new the punchline. The truth is so absurd, you are going to have laugh when the curtain closes.

Sorry for the noise and given the message, a entirely too exhaustive attempt to relate what is so exquisitely simple and so profound in scope. I am still kind of in a ecstatic and in a very excited state of mind as you can tell.

I am rambling, As i said it is as much a way for me to process it as it is my need to share. It is nothing more than that. If you can actually take anything from it, or use as a source of stimulating ideas. Then I have given more than I hoped to achieve. So I am not trying to preach or pretend to have any magical keys to heaven or enlightenment. Because again It can't be done in such a way. Believe me it is from the heart and not from a desire to be appearing as anything special I am writing so much because it is so meaningful for me and I have no idea if what I am trying to express is being delivered in a coherent way. Don't worry this feels like a wrap for me. So much less noise. It really is just spinning the wheels, good for fun but don't believe it will get you anywhere you need to go, philosophy, religion, even science. Nope it won't work. You will can only ever have a position that is between pure awareness and then self, so you can reach it by looking anywhere else except within. Try any other way and it will fail, the harder you try the more you fail. There is no other possible result. This is the clear unavoidable conclusion. There is really no destination, there is nothing to be found,, except what is right here and right now, everything you need you already have, if your looking you won't find it because you are it, and you would be just running around looking for yourself.

I am insane or I am not. A inseparable unified whole. :) I guess that dichotomy is up for grabs. :)

And I would not blame anyone for thinking so! It has certainly occurred to me. :)
Let me see if I can put this in different terms, and you tell me how close I am.

Right now, I'm imagining what it was like when I was a baby. I can see, hear, smell, taste and touch/feel myself being touched. I haven't yet learnt any language, so I have no concepts, i.e. nothing conceptual with which to try to make sense out of and/or organise what I experience. I simply experience.

I come wired, so to speak, with the intrinsic urge to bring meaning into the world. What does this sight, sound, smell, taste or touch mean? what the heck am I doing here? I try to understand, and I do that automatically, by association. When I taste my mother's milk, I associate that with the need for sustenance and the satisfaction I experience when I get it. As soon as I am able to do that, there is the beginning of fear. A vaguely experienced fear of losing that sustenance. If I don't get it, I experience hunger and automatically I cry. If I get it, I feel assuaged, may smile, and the fear is temporarily abated.

The basic human expressions and body language are also wired in. What do I do when I feel satisfied? From the perspective of someone sufficiently older than I, I exhibit the signs of satisfaction: they think "This little baby is content". OTOH, if my basic needs are unsatisfied, and I show it, they think "this little baby is not content. It's probably hungry". If I'm its mother, I have the instinctive desire to feed it myself, or if not, have the instinctive desire to see to it that it gets fed. Maybe I should go to find its mother or some other nursing woman who could feed it.

From my first-person perspective, all I experience can be summarised as feeling comfortable and satisfied, or varying degrees of discomfort and dissatisfaction, and a lot of that is associated with whether or not I get fed. There are other feelings that also need to be satisfied, such as not experiencing pain. Ever nascent and growing is the fear of experiencing dissatisfaction. This is all quite natural and in its own way good from a survival perspective. Without a modicum of fear, one is likely to end up dead in short order.

What are these sounds I hear from the person who feeds me? She cooes and croons when I'm dissatisfied, rocks me gently in her arms, and somehow that makes me feel a little better. I associate these actions with a nascent awareness of being loved.

Love and fear start to come in as soon as we're born. Right from the get-go, they condition our reactions to, and interactions with, the apparently external world. Before we were born, there was no awareness of either. There was just awareness. Everything since has been elaborated from usually non-self-reflective awareness of love and fear -- and that includes language. Maybe everything we express is the result of awareness of love on the one hand, and fear on the other. Right from the beginning, contrast has been brought into the world. It's very hard (maybe impossible?) to express anything that doesn't, ultimately, rely on contrast. This may be the source of the conviction that duality is real.

What I get from what you say is that you've experienced a return to simple awareness, to what it was like before you were born, before you created the world as most adults experience it. At the same time, of course, you are an adult, and so are still very familiar with how adults express themselves and behave. But so strong is the awareness of your primordial awareness, that the juxtaposition of it with ordinary adult awareness raises a kind of cognitive dissonance and you wonder if you might be going crazy.

I suppose that we're all a bit crazy in all sorts of different ways; but I suspect you aren't seriously going crazy. I'm not experiencing what you're experiencing, but maybe I can empathise with it? I've been a baby myself and can at least imagine, if not actually remember, what it it was like and how the world I've created for myself has come to be. It's all a bit intellectualised, a bit influenced by language that may have ultimately arisen out of the embedding of contrast in the psyche, but maybe it's something like, or akin to, what you're experiencing.

I'll stop there for now and wait for what, if anything, your response might be.
 

Alex

Administrator
I did not see objects I only saw differentiations of colour, I could see how my eyes gave the sense of depth, which I could recognized that it had been conditioned into my awareness as a infant. Somehow all the filters were gone, I have had ego death before but this was so different. I lost all things I had not even realized were there, and it was almost everything. It really was like being a baby again. So much of what i just took for granted was gone. So much related to the way that i projected and organized what was perceived.
wow... great. I've never heard it put this way before.
 
Let me see if I can put this in different terms, and you tell me how close I am.

Right now, I'm imagining what it was like when I was a baby. I can see, hear, smell, taste and touch/feel myself being touched. I haven't yet learnt any language, so I have no concepts, i.e. nothing conceptual with which to try to make sense out of and/or organise what I experience. I simply experience.

I come wired, so to speak, with the intrinsic urge to bring meaning into the world. What does this sight, sound, smell, taste or touch mean? what the heck am I doing here? I try to understand, and I do that automatically, by association. When I taste my mother's milk, I associate that with the need for sustenance and the satisfaction I experience when I get it. As soon as I am able to do that, there is the beginning of fear. A vaguely experienced fear of losing that sustenance. If I don't get it, I experience hunger and automatically I cry. If I get it, I feel assuaged, may smile, and the fear is temporarily abated.

The basic human expressions and body language are also wired in. What do I do when I feel satisfied? From the perspective of someone sufficiently older than I, I exhibit the signs of satisfaction: they think "This little baby is content". OTOH, if my basic needs are unsatisfied, and I show it, they think "this little baby is not content. It's probably hungry". If I'm its mother, I have the instinctive desire to feed it myself, or if not, have the instinctive desire to see to it that it gets fed. Maybe I should go to find its mother or some other nursing woman who could feed it.

From my first-person perspective, all I experience can be summarised as feeling comfortable and satisfied, or varying degrees of discomfort and dissatisfaction, and a lot of that is associated with whether or not I get fed. There are other feelings that also need to be satisfied, such as not experiencing pain. Ever nascent and growing is the fear of experiencing dissatisfaction. This is all quite natural and in its own way good from a survival perspective. Without a modicum of fear, one is likely to end up dead in short order.

What are these sounds I hear from the person who feeds me? She cooes and croons when I'm dissatisfied, rocks me gently in her arms, and somehow that makes me feel a little better. I associate these actions with a nascent awareness of being loved.

Love and fear start to come in as soon as we're born. Right from the get-go, they condition our reactions to, and interactions with, the apparently external world. Before we were born, there was no awareness of either. There was just awareness. Everything since has been elaborated from usually non-self-reflective awareness of love and fear -- and that includes language. Maybe everything we express is the result of awareness of love on the one hand, and fear on the other. Right from the beginning, contrast has been brought into the world. It's very hard (maybe impossible?) to express anything that doesn't, ultimately, rely on contrast. This may be the source of the conviction that duality is real.

What I get from what you say is that you've experienced a return to simple awareness, to what it was like before you were born, before you created the world as most adults experience it. At the same time, of course, you are an adult, and so are still very familiar with how adults express themselves and behave. But so strong is the awareness of your primordial awareness, that the juxtaposition of it with ordinary adult awareness raises a kind of cognitive dissonance and you wonder if you might be going crazy.

I suppose that we're all a bit crazy in all sorts of different ways; but I suspect you aren't seriously going crazy. I'm not experiencing what you're experiencing, but maybe I can empathise with it? I've been a baby myself and can at least imagine, if not actually remember, what it it was like and how the world I've created for myself has come to be. It's all a bit intellectualised, a bit influenced by language that may have ultimately arisen out of the embedding of contrast in the psyche, but maybe it's something like, or akin to, what you're experiencing.

I'll stop there for now and wait for what, if anything, your response might be.
Yes, i mean it becomes pretty clear when we just can separate everything else from what is just pure sensory perception. Which is startlingly quite simple to define, and that every thing else part is huge, I mean that is the matrix! It is so influential on how we perceive everything and it is just taken for granted and normalized as being something that is real when it is obviously nothing of the sort. The same way we build this phony image of ourselves, we build a phony world! There is something real but it is not what is imposed on it out of the necessity for survival.

Yep, you simply can't express anything that doesn't rely on contrast. The yin and yang. There are only things as defined by things that that they aren't. That is all. That is everything. That is also how we play the trick of duality and illusion of separateness. This must also include the object that is "I" and that which is perceived as not "I." Which is the rest of the universe. But That must also be just as everything else. By pure necessity. a unified whole.

So quite literally it is not is one thing and it is not is two things, it is clearly not two things. So non dual,

There is no room for anything else. And no need. If anyone thinks there is, it could never ever be known or shown to be true. It is not actually possible. This is really is a enormous leap of faith that is just not needed at all. It does not fit anywhere with what we naturally experience.

I had been going about it the wrong way. It was not about discovering anything. Or even learning anything new. It really was a uncovering. Yes it absolutely was cognitive dissonance. There was a war going on in me. So I was just stuck in this loop of constant questioning. Till it kind of organically just reduced from the jumbled mess of ideas to the bare bones of what is literally just normal perception. Then there was nothing apart from this simplicity in boring old normal perception. It is at the very heart of what we are, and how we perceive. It is right there, it is present right now in the moment as it has always been.

I am not extending from anything outside of what is just normal and known.
 
Yes, i mean it becomes pretty clear when we just can separate everything else from what is just pure sensory perception. Which is startlingly quite simple to define, and that every thing else part is huge, I mean that is the matrix! It is so influential on how we perceive everything and it is just taken for granted and normalized as being something that is real when it is obviously nothing of the sort. The same way we build this phony image of ourselves, we build a phony world! There is something real but it is not what is imposed on it out of the necessity for survival.

Yep, you simply can't express anything that doesn't rely on contrast. The yin and yang. There are only things as defined by things that that they aren't. That is all. That is everything. That is also how we play the trick of duality and illusion of separateness. This must also include the object that is "I" and that which is perceived as not "I." Which is the rest of the universe. But That must also be just as everything else. By pure necessity. a unified whole.

So quite literally it is not is one thing and it is not is two things, it is clearly not two things. So non dual,

There is no room for anything else. And no need. If anyone thinks there is, it could never ever be known or shown to be true. It is not actually possible. This is really is a enormous leap of faith that is just not needed at all. It does not fit anywhere with what we naturally experience.

I had been going about it the wrong way. It was not about discovering anything. Or even learning anything new. It really was a uncovering. Yes it absolutely was cognitive dissonance. There was a war going on in me. So I was just stuck in this loop of constant questioning. Till it kind of organically just reduced from the jumbled mess of ideas to the bare bones of what is literally just normal perception. Then there was nothing apart from this simplicity in boring old normal perception. It is at the very heart of what we are, and how we perceive. It is right there, it is present right now in the moment as it has always been.

I am not extending from anything outside of what is just normal and known.
Just to be sure, when you said: "So quite literally it is not is one thing and it is not is two things, it is clearly not two things. So non dual", are the bits I've highlighted in red typos that can be omitted?

IOW, is this a statement of your experience of non-duality, that there isn't a subjective "I" plus all the rest (which many label "objective reality")? You experience it as all one and the same thing?

If so, I'd tentatively take the liberty of reframing it by saying that you've re-acquired the naive awareness of reality as you experienced it in infancy, despite now being an adult. You can experience how the apparent "everything else" has been conditioned into you by other alters who've largely accepted the standard interpretation of what they perceive with their senses. But you now understand that as merely an explanatory framework of reality that people come to believe as they grow up, rather than reality itself.

To me, although my understanding is largely intellectual rather than experiential, this is quite close to what people like Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffmann are saying. BK has experimented with psychedelics and DH regularly meditates, and they may both have had similar experiences. Occasionally and spontaneously, I might too. But in your case, for the moment at least, it seems to have become a continuously lived experience. I say "for the moment" because conceivably it's a realisation that might fade with time. I once had an experience like it that lasted for a couple of weeks, but presently it's a glorious memory rather than a lived experience.

Thing is, if we are here as what BK dubs "dissociated alters" of M@L, then we could be its way of self-reflectively learning more about itself as if from a second-person perspective (BK favours the idea that M@L isn't innately self-reflective, but rather "instinctive"). There's a degree of value in dual thinking, insofar as it helps ensure that we live long enough (by taking perceptions seriously if not literally) to make a little progress in such learning. The process of dissociation may be effectively what creates sensory perception and ego in the first place.

It looks increasingly like more and more alters are, at least intellectually, coming to apprehend what may be going on -- even some hard-nosed scientific types, witness the fact that BK has been a fairly regular contributor to Scientific American, and DH is a respected author of scientific papers in this area. We may be on the cusp of a major paradigm shift that will in the end revolutionise the practice of science. I hope so, at any rate.

I feel inclined to add some reflections, but I may do that in a subsequent post so as not to make this one too long.
 
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And here are my further reflections:

The main puzzle for me right now is trying to figure out whether or not, after ego death, individuated alter consciousnesses continue to exist. I wonder whether the sum total of all alters comprise one part of M@L's internal experience of itself. I have this image of "alterdom" as being like a complicated balloon with myriads of beings we perceive as individuals. When blown up, the surface of the balloon looks like it it is studded with countless individuals, but they're in fact all part of the one thing. Now and then, "individuals" might get subsumed back into the balloon's surface, i.e. they appear to "die". This might jibe with what Sufis say when they look forward to "annihilation in God".

IOW, M@L might be experiencing all living things as one entity, and the only thing that persists could be the "balloon", so to speak. Alters at death wouldn't be annihilated, so much as subsumed back into the one process going on in M@L. The ultimate aim might be the something like a "noosphere", as Teilhard de Chardin put it -- a part of M@L's mentation from which it could self-reflectively view itself.

If it's so, M@L might experience the joy and suffering of every "individual" that has ever lived. This would also explain where all the "souls" come from. There wouldn't be individual souls, just the one process in M@L (one could think of it as a "global soul") that continously differentiates into apparent forms when viewed from the first-person perspective of alters, which is for the most part limited by their perceptions. I'm trying to avoid slipping into classical dualism here, and continuing to think of M@L as one thing. Nevertheless, it's undeniably complex and comprises many mentational processes. Some of those appear to perception as the external, inanimate universe composed of galaxies, stars, planets and so on, and others as as animate beings.

It's mentation also appears very regular and ordered. The business of science is to investigate that order, to try to model it, and that's fine and useful, except when scientists try to make the model substitute for actual reality. And again, when they simply make up stuff to avoid admitting that materialism is BS.

Maybe alters evolve because M@L is evolving and learning at a universal level. "Evil" might represent the inevitable resistance of self-reflective, dissociated alter egos that have to have free will -- otherwise everything would be deterministic and nothing could change, but in the realm of alters for sure, it palpably does. Entropy contests order all the way, but living systems are the one thing, taken as a whole, that can eventually prevail, if not here, on some other example of what appears to us as a planet.

I don't particularly like the idea I've outlined, and hope, when viewed from my current perspective, it isn't so. I'm rather attached to the idea of my individuality not being subsumed, and hope that just maybe we can reincarnate and learn more on an individual basis, but that could just be my ego talking; it ain't necessarily so.

If the idea is right, however, then perhaps things like angels and demons, ghosts and ETs, etc. don't literally exist. Nor would past life memories and at least some psi phenomena literally exist as such. They could just be apparent manifestations of the information that is being accumulated by M@L as it's learning -- some of it picked up from living beings, and some from memory traces of beings that have been subsumed. A kind of super-psi, if you like, or an Akashic record, of which alters could have varying degrees of awareness.
 
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Just to be sure, when you said: "So quite literally it is not is one thing and it is not is two things, it is clearly not two things. So non dual", are the bits I've highlighted in red typos that can be omitted?

IOW, is this a statement of your experience of non-duality, that there isn't a subjective "I" plus all the rest (which many label "objective reality")? You experience it as all one and the same thing?

If so, I'd tentatively take the liberty of reframing it by saying that you've re-acquired the naive awareness of reality as you experienced it in infancy, despite now being an adult. You can experience how the apparent "everything else" has been conditioned into you by other alters who've largely accepted the standard interpretation of what they perceive with their senses. But you now understand that as merely an explanatory framework of reality that people come to believe as they grow up, rather than reality itself.

To me, although my understanding is largely intellectual rather than experiential, this is quite close to what people like Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffmann are saying. BK has experimented with psychedelics and DH regularly meditates, and they may both have had similar experiences. Occasionally and spontaneously, I might too. But in your case, for the moment at least, it seems to have become a continuously lived experience. I say "for the moment" because conceivably it's a realisation that might fade with time. I once had an experience like it that lasted for a couple of weeks, but presently it's a glorious memory rather than a lived experience.

Thing is, if we are here as what BK dubs "dissociated alters" of M@L, then we could be its way of self-reflectively learning more about itself as if from a second-person perspective (BK favours the idea that M@L isn't innately self-reflective, but rather "instinctive"). There's a degree of value in dual thinking, insofar as it helps ensure that we live long enough (by taking perceptions seriously if not literally) to make a little progress in such learning. The process of dissociation may be effectively what creates sensory perception and ego in the first place.

It looks increasingly like more and more alters are, at least intellectually, coming to apprehend what may be going on -- even some hard-nosed scientific types, witness the fact that BK has been a fairly regular contributor to Scientific American, and DH is a respected author of scientific papers in this area. We may be on the cusp of a major paradigm shift that will in the end revolutionise the practice of science. I hope so, at any rate.

I feel inclined to add some reflections, but I'may do that in a subsequent post so as not to make this one too long.
Yes, that is exactly it!

The cognitive dissonance struggle I was going through, (that finally snapped) was my finite brains insistence on what appears as reality and the many experiences that I have had (while not fully understanding) that were far removed from that version of reality. There were things I was subconsciously clinging to that could not be reconciled. Something had to give eventually.

I think I can clarify a little better.

Many of us here are of the primary consciousness view of reality as opposed to the materialistic. Consciousness does not seem to be very well defined, words being the problem that they are. So I think it can be defined better to explain what is happening, and if it is accepted, then certain things must follow.

Consciousness, being non physical is formless and infinite. Well then, it can never be divided, you can't have two consciousness's because that implies some sort of boundary and then they would have to exist within something else. This just cannot be. That would be a contradiction.

So everything is consciousness and it is awareness that rises within consciousness. Consciousness is like the field and is unchanging. Awareness on the other hand is changing. Being aware of awareness is our state. When things enter into awareness we call it a experience. It is from one experience to the next that forms our story. The undulating rising and falling of awareness creates time. The perception of these boundaries creates space.

The boundaries are formed when consciousness relinquishes awareness to alters within itself, it forgets itself so that it can appear as separate. This is how it manifests. It is how the entire universe manifests.

Here's the thing, the difficult thing to process. Look around it is all you, everything! These boundaries all of them including how you define yourself are from the process of divisions of awareness. That is why there appears to be an objective reality outside of yourself. This is why we appear as separate individuals and it is also why there appears to be minds and matter. But it is all consciousness. It is all what you are in essence, existence itself!

The overwhelming feeling of love in these extended conscious realms is because this is "our" original sate. Our need for love, companionship our feeling of having something missing, our sufferings is all a footprint memory of who or rather what we really are. Clinging to these boundaries are the seeds of suffering.

The term non dual is not immediately understood to our finite rational brains. It is para logical. IS not two does not equal IS two or IS one.

I know this is going to mess with a lot of peoples beliefs. I do get that and understand. It did with mine on a subconscious level. But if you start with a non physical formless infinity. Clearly it cannot be divided in any way except through the limits of awareness.

So I have to say that our finite brains are not just for survival, it is a little deeper. It really is how manifestation takes place at all levels and presents itself to itself.
 
Life on Earth is still a fucked up situation whatever way you look at it and i dont think that is because it is part of a Created plan. It is how it is and universal law is an unfair longting but it cant be any other way to some extent or another.
Not saying that there is no God or anything. is all down to interpretations of truth. Maybe part of God could be seen as the inevitible direction that love has to go in
 
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Well this series of posts of mine have been my way of trying to integrate and intellectualize something that I have had countless experiences of since a teenager and have been trying to understand for my entire life. I mean I would have these glimpses of something I only felt but could not describe. It is my kind of my life's work in a way. I have been trying to integrate this for so long with self reflection, psychedelics, meditation, all types of dabbling in esoteric and occult things as well as the right hand path religious traditions. I mean I have been looking everywhere to understand something that was directly experienced but not actually understood and ultimately remained unrealized.

Until today!

So I would like to start by apologizing for being somewhat noisy. But I have yet some more noise to share a lot as you can see, it is as much as it is for my own unpacking and my own processing as it is to share what has been the greatest light bulb moment of my life. So, well I don't know what else to do with it. So if it makes any sense that is awesome. Otherwise you can just consider it entertainment, or the warning signs of insanity if you like.

Since my mind which is somewhat obsessive compulsive, I mean, I really have to focus on paying attention to the so called "real" world. I tend to get lost with my head in the clouds or more precisely one cloud. It makes me pretty good at what I do, but it can easily derail if I don't keep things in check. As a quite typical occurrence to this I have been constantly grappling with these questions non stop, with not much sleep actually and when I did wake it has been the first thought in my mind. I really didn't know why it was presenting so strongly with me. This is my curse. I needed to really and truly understand, I know it on the surface, but something is missing. Why can't I explain it? It really bugged me. If I can't explain it. Then I don't really understand it either. What am I talking about exactly? it just sort of sounds like what has been thrown around before and it really does.

When thinking of everything that has been said on this including what is not said :)

That chain of thoughts that have been consistently circling in my head uncontrollably culminated to a surprising spontaneous satori experience in me.

Then I understood, And I mean absolutely. That gap I was trying to bridge is gone. as like everything else that gap was a illusion, a imposed mental construct, the more I tried try to answer it in any conceptual terms, the more I would bury the answer that has always been there. This was the problem and the key.

In a instant there it was, undeniable, It is so simple I could not believe how I just could not realize it truly. It actually can not be any other way, there is no way out of it. It is so perfectly obvious and is hiding in plain sight. And the implications are so profound for everything, it literally pulls the veil away. This is so huge, it is how we actually perceive the entire universe, I mean I have been thinking about this stuff for decades. But this was something else completely. It was a realization beyond any terms or anything that can be said, it is just there existing as it is.

So I can't tell you in a way that can be intellectually defined, because as soon as you do it is lost again.

Instead I will relate some impressions and similar ideas. If you really ponder these things, dig deep into these things. I think it will at least give a glimpse of what it is, by the only means, direct experience.

You just can't do it by way of concepts or language. Terms, concepts are the things between pure awareness and the self. The manufactured duality. This is the illusion that is Maya. The illusion of separateness and The illusion of a objective universe outside of awareness. Exactly like the ego we create between our minds and our true self. It is a fake.

It all kind of collapsed when all these things were running through my mind, I lost my sense of time, I lost almost everything I had defined as myself. All that was left was pure awareness, for the first time ever i was having this same experience as a result of a sort of thought experiment. WTF!

The world was instantly transformed I did not see objects I only saw differentiations of colour, I could see how my eyes gave the sense of depth, which I could recognized that it had been conditioned into my awareness as a infant. Somehow all the filters were gone, I have had ego death before but this was so different. I lost all things I had not even realized were there, and it was almost everything. It really was like being a baby again. So much of what i just took for granted was gone. So much related to the way that i projected and organized what was perceived. And it is clear when you look at what is simple raw sensory perception and what is not. The vast everything else that is not simple pure awareness is the mind doing what it does. Much absolutely essential but also unfortunately it separates us from the simple truth. The veil between the ego and the self and the vail between the self and what is perceived, which is the phenomenal reality of existence. Sorry I am going to use these words a lot.

What was apparent straight away is that there is nothing to vision beyond variations of colour, nothing more. Holy shit! It was clear that just like the ego we project absolutely everything onto what is directly perceived and the self. From this obvious and natural observation. I knew how much was actually informing what is seen. Do you see how significant just this little thing of vision is? How powerful the conditioning defines things is extremely strong. We artificially construct all things between what is and can only ever be direct experience.

So it was like seeing as baby sees the world on its first day on Earth. You see, when you look "out" there (also a construct) all you are actually perceiving are patterns of colors. Yet it is almost impossible to ignore the conditioned organization of that simple feild of colour into objects, classifications and a multitude of any other distinctions. Our brains are duality manufacturing machines!! Even if there was a out there, there are no colours as this is also illusory. The baby doesn't see a flower or a ball, it sees a patch of colour, it sees where something is and where something else isn't and nothing more, as it does with sound, touch and smell. There is only what is and can only be defined with what isn't. Everything else is a construct in between the self and what is perceived and I mean everything, just think about it. Just as we do with the ego, we do with the entirety of existence. And it is just a phony as the ego. It is not real it is actually only what we project onto it that creates the very insistent feeling of separateness and the illusion of a objective reality outside of awareness.

And really guys that is the mystery. When you really get this, I mean really get the full implications of what this means. You will have a shift in consciousness I guarantee. When you get it you will see that there is no way it can be anything other than what it is. I have been feeling it trickle into every part of my being.

I can not emphasize how this has effected me. I may mark this day as my actual birthday, when I finally awakened at the age of 51.

There is only the perceiver and what is perceived and what is perceived is defined only by what is and what it isn't. These are intrinsically entwined as a inseparable unified whole. Truly all is the self and the self is in all. Everything else is illusory or what is referred to as Maya.

In a moment I saw everything as it actually was and it is so astounding simple, it is no use even trying to even understand it by intellectualizing it. Using words because that is the root cause of the problem. It can't be done. It can only be experienced directly as pure awareness unfiltered by our logical and systematic egoic way of looking at things that evolved as a natural consequence of the need for survival. The more you seek the further it hides. Stop trying. It can only ever be experienced directly because trying otherwise is the exact reason you will not find it.

It really is like hide and seek. When you realize it, it is like you simply have found what is hiding. It is just there and undeniable. There is no reason to do anymore than that, and you really can't do anymore than that. This is also completely obvious. Things are as they should be. Stop trying and just be what you are, you cant be anything other than that.

I feel I have had a monumental breakthrough, a shift in consciousness I can keep in this appearance of duality. this is so liberating. And a nagging thing that I could never do anything with this profound experiences. There is a letting go of so much that I literally feel like I am walking on air, a enormous something I did not realize I had is gone.

So either an a awakening or I am just currently documenting the chronicles of my descent into madness. It is one or the other. Either is extreme.

So...
There is no objective outside reality beyond awareness. This is a massively unneeded leap that can never be shown as true. It is clearly evident when you remove what is between raw awareness and the self. The only thing is the perceiver and what is perceived this is the inseparable whole of existence that is the self.

It is all the self, it is not a matter of proof, you can't do it. Trying is why you fail. But there is actually nothing else it can possibly be when this is actually realized.

Consciousness is all that exits. There is only a perceiver and what is perceived. The first thought "i am". There is only what is, and what isn't. Both are intrinsic to defining the other, there is no separating them. They are two of a unified and inseparable whole. They are not two, or is non dual.

There is actually nothing beyond this nor can there be. It is all there is, and from this simplicity explodes the miraculous reality that is dancing before us.

The mystery has been in plain view, to simple to be seen. And kind of giggling I would say at our magnificent monkey brains with all of it's deeply complex theoretical constructs probing and puzzling with dualities imposed in language and concepts of things. You can't do it! because that is precisely the thing that conceals what has been in plain view the entire time but beneath the imposed dualities of language and conceptions. So you can see the futility you face, because this is the only way you could hope to solve it. But you can't it is self limiting and the reason it cannot be found. It can only be experienced. It is right there in your consciousness right now. It is just obscured by constructs, necessary and unnecessary, it is hidden as soon as language develops, and the pattern programming begins for the latest intelligent monkey to be able to make sense and survive the jungle.

I have said it before, but I never exactly new the punchline. The truth is so absurd, you are going to have laugh when the curtain closes.

Sorry for the noise and given the message, a entirely too exhaustive attempt to relate what is so exquisitely simple and so profound in scope. I am still kind of in a ecstatic and in a very excited state of mind as you can tell.

I am rambling, As i said it is as much a way for me to process it as it is my need to share. It is nothing more than that. If you can actually take anything from it, or use as a source of stimulating ideas. Then I have given more than I hoped to achieve. So I am not trying to preach or pretend to have any magical keys to heaven or enlightenment. Because again It can't be done in such a way. Believe me it is from the heart and not from a desire to be appearing as anything special I am writing so much because it is so meaningful for me and I have no idea if what I am trying to express is being delivered in a coherent way. Don't worry this feels like a wrap for me. So much less noise. It really is just spinning the wheels, good for fun but don't believe it will get you anywhere you need to go, philosophy, religion, even science. Nope it won't work. You will can only ever have a position that is between pure awareness and then self, so you can reach it by looking anywhere else except within. Try any other way and it will fail, the harder you try the more you fail. There is no other possible result. This is the clear unavoidable conclusion. There is really no destination, there is nothing to be found,, except what is right here and right now, everything you need you already have, if your looking you won't find it because you are it, and you would be just running around looking for yourself.

I am insane or I am not. A inseparable unified whole. :) I guess that dichotomy is up for grabs. :)

And I would not blame anyone for thinking so! It has certainly occurred to me. :)
Thanks for sharing. :)

I don't think you're insane at all. Let me try to put this into words in another way and let me know if it makes sense.

We intuit that the ultimate reality must be ONE thing. And we can dissolve boundaries until we arrive at ONE thing because boundaries are arbitrarily assigned by choice.

But the ONE thing is ineffable. We can't talk about it and we can't think of it because words require divisions and boundaries. We can BE it if we choose but we don't stay IT for long because we have goals and goals create choices and choices are boundaries that break the ONE thing up into interesting shapes/experiences.

What is the one thing? Material? Tiny rocks? Certainly not.

Is it consciousness? Pure awareness? I don't like that either because such things only have meaning in the context of other things.

I prefer to say that the ONE thing is PATTERN which implies a fundamental TRINITY. If we think in terms of duality we are missing something.

PATTERN implies the fundamental Trinity. We can assign different names to the three parts but for starters lets say it is: similarity / difference / choice. All of reality can be explained by this Trinity. We choose to assign identity based on arbitrary degree of similarity and we choose to differentiate based on arbitrary degree of difference.

Boundary is synonymous with choice. When we perceive we are also making a choice about where to place boundaries that identify similarities and differences. So to say that all is PATTERN has consciousness and choice baked into it. It requires both an objective spectrum of difference and similarity as well as subjective choice and perception.

How do we make a choice? We have a goal. Without a goal a choice is randomness. But with a goal we make our choice about where to place boundaries based on what is most useful to us in attaining the goal.

We cannot have goals if there is no lack or no frustration. If a goal is instantly attained it doesn't exist for any period of time so there is no opportunity for choice. It is the time lag between goal and attainment of goal that enables the goal to exist which enables choice to exist which enables pattern to exist.

So frustration is inherently part of existence. All structures that encompass you are the product of past frustration from goals un attained that were eventually attained and excreted as structure. Think of goals or desire as voltage which is the potential to do work. The work assigns boundaries which creates pattern which is structure.

This structure - the product of fulfilled goals/desire - sets limitations on future choices which in turn create frustrations which in turn create goals and desires which when fulfilled create further structure.

And just like that we have reasoned our way into the wheel of Karma.

How do you get off the wheel? Stop desiring. This results in boundary dissolution which results in the perception of Oneness. Iron beams bear stress. Water does not bear stress. That which is structural is full of stress. So the feeling accompanied with boundary dissolution is a great elimination of stress.

This feels good. But is it the ideal state? Only if that is what you desire. :)

If you desire a story, then one will split into two and you will decide whether you are Thing #1 or Thing #2, but really you are both and your consciousness is Thing #3 which is the boundary between the two and the instant you begin to desire, then the fractalization will extend out infinitely before you manifesting a story infused with your choice and it will be full of frustration because there is no other way have goals or choice and without choice we don't have patterns or structures.

Some further thoughts...

This PATTERNISM which contains the fundamental TRINITY which contains subject/object/choice implies a power struggle. Since nothing would exist without choice and choice is power to assign boundaries which ultimately creates the pattern/structure and since we would have no choice without limitations on our choice that create frustration... this means the power struggle which eventually manifests as good vs. evil is inherent in the system.

One essential component of consciousness is a feedback loop. When you have the feeling of "pure awareness" you temporarily cancel the feedback loop such that past and future fall away. As I said earlier, this is useful for dissolving stress, but it also dissolves all goals so from a creation or survival perspective it is not always useful and a feedback loop can be very useful.

A feedback loop juxtaposes goals with outcomes to allow you to adjust your inputs or processes to better achieve the goal next time around.

What do many NDE's include? A life review. This is an example of a larger scale feedback loop. This indicates that an individual lifespan is but one attempt at achieving goals which extend beyond the lifespan. To appeal to the simulation analogy: an individual life span is like one iteration of the simulation that is training an AI agent. The AI agent is like the SOUL. The soul is attempting to achieve some goals and the individual lives it spawns are efforts at achieving those goals and the SOUL is (hopefully) getting closer to achieving those goals as it is being informed by the success or failure of the lives it has instantiated.

This is an explanation for Shledrake's Morphogentic Fields. He found that lessons learned by one generation improved performance in another generation even without any contact between the two. We can think of a family or a species as a SOUL or AI agent that is being trained and it is improving at achieving goals.

With every life there is a feedback loop to judge success or failure in attaining goals and so the SOUL improves. But there is competition. Not all souls will make it. Those which don't succeed will be destroyed. This is part of the creation process - creation through subtraction of that which detracts.

And in fact it is not just one level of SOULS or AGENTS but it is like Russian nesting souls. Concentric rings of similarity/identity. Familial connections are closest but similarities extend outwards to species and in fact we could say the whole planet has a soul at one level. We are souls within souls within souls or simulations within simulations within simulations.

Anyway... I gotta get back to work!
 
Yes, that is exactly it!

The cognitive dissonance struggle I was going through, (that finally snapped) was my finite brains insistence on what appears as reality and the many experiences that I have had (while not fully understanding) that were far removed from that version of reality. There were things I was subconsciously clinging to that could not be reconciled. Something had to give eventually.

I think I can clarify a little better.

Many of us here are of the primary consciousness view of reality as opposed to the materialistic. Consciousness does not seem to be very well defined, words being the problem that they are. So I think it can be defined better to explain what is happening, and if it is accepted, then certain things must follow.

Consciousness, being non physical is formless and infinite. Well then, it can never be divided, you can't have two consciousness's because that implies some sort of boundary and then they would have to exist within something else. This just cannot be. That would be a contradiction.

So everything is consciousness and it is awareness that rises within consciousness. Consciousness is like the field and is unchanging. Awareness on the other hand is changing. Being aware of awareness is our state. When things enter into awareness we call it a experience. It is from one experience to the next that forms our story. The undulating rising and falling of awareness creates time. The perception of these boundaries creates space.

The boundaries are formed when consciousness relinquishes awareness to alters within itself, it forgets itself so that it can appear as separate. This is how it manifests. It is how the entire universe manifests.

Here's the thing, the difficult thing to process. Look around it is all you, everything! These boundaries all of them including how you define yourself are from the process of divisions of awareness. That is why there appears to be an objective reality outside of yourself. This is why we appear as separate individuals and it is also why there appears to be minds and matter. But it is all consciousness. It is all what you are in essence, existence itself!

The overwhelming feeling of love in these extended conscious realms is because this is "our" original sate. Our need for love, companionship our feeling of having something missing, our sufferings is all a footprint memory of who or rather what we really are. Clinging to these boundaries are the seeds of suffering.

The term non dual is not immediately understood to our finite rational brains. It is para logical. IS not two does not equal IS two or IS one.

I know this is going to mess with a lot of peoples beliefs. I do get that and understand. It did with mine on a subconscious level. But if you start with a non physical formless infinity. Clearly it cannot be divided in any way except through the limits of awareness.

So I have to say that our finite brains are not just for survival, it is a little deeper. It really is how manifestation takes place at all levels and presents itself to itself.
I've just stumbled across the following video. It should ring a familar bell for you, even in the first 15 minutes or so:

 
Thanks for sharing. :)

I don't think you're insane at all. Let me try to put this into words in another way and let me know if it makes sense.

We intuit that the ultimate reality must be ONE thing. And we can dissolve boundaries until we arrive at ONE thing because boundaries are arbitrarily assigned by choice.

But the ONE thing is ineffable. We can't talk about it and we can't think of it because words require divisions and boundaries. We can BE it if we choose but we don't stay IT for long because we have goals and goals create choices and choices are boundaries that break the ONE thing up into interesting shapes/experiences.

What is the one thing? Material? Tiny rocks? Certainly not.

Is it consciousness? Pure awareness? I don't like that either because such things only have meaning in the context of other things.

I prefer to say that the ONE thing is PATTERN which implies a fundamental TRINITY. If we think in terms of duality we are missing something.

PATTERN implies the fundamental Trinity. We can assign different names to the three parts but for starters lets say it is: similarity / difference / choice. All of reality can be explained by this Trinity. We choose to assign identity based on arbitrary degree of similarity and we choose to differentiate based on arbitrary degree of difference.

Boundary is synonymous with choice. When we perceive we are also making a choice about where to place boundaries that identify similarities and differences. So to say that all is PATTERN has consciousness and choice baked into it. It requires both an objective spectrum of difference and similarity as well as subjective choice and perception.

How do we make a choice? We have a goal. Without a goal a choice is randomness. But with a goal we make our choice about where to place boundaries based on what is most useful to us in attaining the goal.

We cannot have goals if there is no lack or no frustration. If a goal is instantly attained it doesn't exist for any period of time so there is no opportunity for choice. It is the time lag between goal and attainment of goal that enables the goal to exist which enables choice to exist which enables pattern to exist.

So frustration is inherently part of existence. All structures that encompass you are the product of past frustration from goals un attained that were eventually attained and excreted as structure. Think of goals or desire as voltage which is the potential to do work. The work assigns boundaries which creates pattern which is structure.

This structure - the product of fulfilled goals/desire - sets limitations on future choices which in turn create frustrations which in turn create goals and desires which when fulfilled create further structure.

And just like that we have reasoned our way into the wheel of Karma.

How do you get off the wheel? Stop desiring. This results in boundary dissolution which results in the perception of Oneness. Iron beams bear stress. Water does not bear stress. That which is structural is full of stress. So the feeling accompanied with boundary dissolution is a great elimination of stress.

This feels good. But is it the ideal state? Only if that is what you desire. :)

If you desire a story, then one will split into two and you will decide whether you are Thing #1 or Thing #2, but really you are both and your consciousness is Thing #3 which is the boundary between the two and the instant you begin to desire, then the fractalization will extend out infinitely before you manifesting a story infused with your choice and it will be full of frustration because there is no other way have goals or choice and without choice we don't have patterns or structures.

Some further thoughts...

This PATTERNISM which contains the fundamental TRINITY which contains subject/object/choice implies a power struggle. Since nothing would exist without choice and choice is power to assign boundaries which ultimately creates the pattern/structure and since we would have no choice without limitations on our choice that create frustration... this means the power struggle which eventually manifests as good vs. evil is inherent in the system.

One essential component of consciousness is a feedback loop. When you have the feeling of "pure awareness" you temporarily cancel the feedback loop such that past and future fall away. As I said earlier, this is useful for dissolving stress, but it also dissolves all goals so from a creation or survival perspective it is not always useful and a feedback loop can be very useful.

A feedback loop juxtaposes goals with outcomes to allow you to adjust your inputs or processes to better achieve the goal next time around.

What do many NDE's include? A life review. This is an example of a larger scale feedback loop. This indicates that an individual lifespan is but one attempt at achieving goals which extend beyond the lifespan. To appeal to the simulation analogy: an individual life span is like one iteration of the simulation that is training an AI agent. The AI agent is like the SOUL. The soul is attempting to achieve some goals and the individual lives it spawns are efforts at achieving those goals and the SOUL is (hopefully) getting closer to achieving those goals as it is being informed by the success or failure of the lives it has instantiated.

This is an explanation for Shledrake's Morphogentic Fields. He found that lessons learned by one generation improved performance in another generation even without any contact between the two. We can think of a family or a species as a SOUL or AI agent that is being trained and it is improving at achieving goals.

With every life there is a feedback loop to judge success or failure in attaining goals and so the SOUL improves. But there is competition. Not all souls will make it. Those which don't succeed will be destroyed. This is part of the creation process - creation through subtraction of that which detracts.

And in fact it is not just one level of SOULS or AGENTS but it is like Russian nesting souls. Concentric rings of similarity/identity. Familial connections are closest but similarities extend outwards to species and in fact we could say the whole planet has a soul at one level. We are souls within souls within souls or simulations within simulations within simulations.

Anyway... I gotta get back to work!
Thank you Hurmanetar, I appreciate your thoughts, Yes it does make sense. As I read your words I see a trinity as the thinker the thought and the awareness or experience of the thought. Still they are all of the thinker.

I have realized that what most people are seeking, including myself is already present and always has been. You can't find what is not actually lost and looking for it outside of yourself only leads you further away. It's like the tip of a finger trying to point to itself or the eyes trying to see themselves. Not seeing the forest for the trees is a perfect analogy. It is only a matter of recognizing it. It's remarkably simple and yet still a enigmatic mystery. It just is. There is no need to rationalize or intellectualize it. It's just a matter of realizing it as the fundamental nature of being. That which is unchanging and constant in which the flow of experience transpires.

Thanks!
 
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I've just stumbled across the following video. It should ring a familar bell for you, even in the first 15 minutes or so:

Excellent!

I think dreaming is the perfect way to understand these concepts. Since the dream alter forgets the dreamer, and from the dreamers mind this dream reality splits into multiplicity and diversity giving rise to subject or individual and individuals as well as things. And yet it is all of the same substance so to speak.

Lucid dreaming could be described as a awakening to the truth inside the dream. Here the dream avatar recognizes who it truly is! Then there is no fear of anything that may transpire in the dream. It can be enjoyed for what it is with a sense of wonder and it is clear that soon it will be time to wake completely and the dream will once again be one with the dreamer. Nothing is lost, because there was never anything to lose.

This makes perfect sense that we would do as "it' does. As drops in the ocean we contain all the qualities of the ocean. We can find God or the one and only consciousness at the very foundation of our being.
 
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More on what am starting to maybe see as the science to the organic planet hells. Until recently my last assessment had left me at that on these planet hells somehow the individuals there's genital organs are not there and the area is closed and stiched up like. So am thinking as had also wondered before if God/Life would allow for anyone to be born from a young age on one of the planet hells which from what i can see, especially generally, are far far worse than the misery people are born into on this planet. So the stiched up closed and not present genital area as their biological make up seemed like part of the explanation but was still wondering how they would first appear on one of the planet hells if nobody there was able to reproduce. It seems, no offence to amoebas, but that the individuals on the hell planets reproduce themselves similar to how amoebas do on earth. To get there though as electron pairs simultaneously react in the same instant even if they are galaxies away that is how i think people reincarnate, including the evil shite which go onto one of the hell planets.
Is kind of partially consoling to some extent to think that if the average age of someone on Earth is 40-50, if they carry on to get away with their evil crimes on earth which is never the idea, still horror for lack of a word but they have about 40-50 years left at which point i think the above outlines where and how they are going to a hell planet (where others are as we speak), not necessarily eternaly imo, but for an unexplainably long long painful journey, no escape
 
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I've just stumbled across the following video. It should ring a familar bell for you, even in the first 15 minutes or so:

The Sanskrit "vritti" is a yogic term for the contents of awareness. It literally means whirlpool. I wonder If Bernado knew this In formulating one of his most central metaphors or whether it is a just striking coincidence. Perhaps it may even be a resonance of concepts that is being accessed. Whatever the case it is a very useful and powerful way of understanding.
 
-Currently on page 105 of Why Evil Matters-

On the Idea that Josephus Lied so Historical Jesus is Fake


Earlier today I listened again to episode 481 with Leslie Kean (Originator of Netflix Surviving Death)
In the episode, both Alex and Leslie demonstrated no problem whatsoever in accepting the idea that a Hollywood actor had died and either reincarnated or at least for some period of time shared the life of a boy who eventually went on (about teen age) back toward living a more normal childhood…
So, literally, the consciousness or spirit or soul (or whatever you want to call it) left one human form and joined another. One more possibility is that it could have been only the experiences/memories that were passed/shared. Either way, a non-person clearly passed something to a person.

Could be argued to be Morphic Resonance..
But that’s not where I want to go with this.

Why is it easy to believe this happens all the time.. but somehow it couldn’t be possible that God (aka infinite-love-consciousness) did it 2000 years ago, simply on the grounds that the story was exaggerated by humans(the same way humans exaggerate every history ever)?

Why is fake wrestling is more popular than real wrestling??

Remember the 90’s when everyone knew it was a fact that Frank Dux punched through bullet proof glass… and Bruce Lee could kill anyone with a single punch.. and then the Internet happened??

Why were the US founding fathers EVER portrayed as saints??

Answer: Because it rings the bell of the hero.

But then we find out that our heroes are just humans. Does this mean we heard the bell wrong?????

What does that bell say to us when it rings?
 
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